Gravel wheels

[warthog1]

Well, it didn't take long
Already looking to up grade the wheelset on my Revolt.
It came with PX2 Giant branded wheels.
Strong but heavy. They also have very draggy O ring seals on the hubs so don't roll particularly freely if you spin them by hand.
Thinking of some Farsports or Light Bicycle wheels with DT350 or 240 hubs.

https://www.wheelsfar.com/gravel-wheels ... p0061.html

https://www.lightbicycle.com/700C-tubel ... -bike.html

Probably leaning toward Light Bicycle as they have a better rep AFAIK.
Not sure about hooked or hookless.
When we travel I would take the Revolt not the TCR, with 2 wheelsets. Keep the PX2 with gravel tyres and chuck some 28 or 30c GP5K on the carbon wheels.
I run a 28 on the rear of my TCR and put 80 psi in it. I could drop it 10 psi no worries.
Light Bicycle are conservatively recommending 55psi as the max in a 28c hookless.
I would like it harder than that, so not sure how safe it would be.
Conti rate them at 73psi max, which would be fine.

https://www.continental-tires.com/bicyc ... -5000-s-tr

[Retrobyte]

Excuse my ignorance (I don't own a gravel bike), but is there any there difference between a gravel and road wheelset apart from the rims being a bit wider to accomodate wider tyres?

I have a set of Farsports carbon rims on my roadie - the rims are 25mm external/18mm internal width and I run 28c tyres. I know a couple of other guys who are happy with Farsports as well - one of them races with his.

[warthog1]

Excuse my ignorance (I don't own a gravel bike), but is there any there difference between a gravel and road wheelset apart from the rims being a bit wider to accomodate wider tyres?

I have a set of Farsports carbon rims on my roadie - the rims are 25mm external/18mm internal width and I run 28c tyres. I know a couple of other guys who are happy with Farsports as well - one of them races with his.

Thanks for the feedback on farsports.

Yeah gravel rims are wider and need to be pretty strong.
Running 40c tyres I'd like a wider rim bed.

I am now an aging never was but still believe in the 105% rule whereby the rim is wider than the tyre for aero performance.
More applicable on the road obviously but being wider helps with wider gravel tyres imo also.

Also saw these on WW;
https://www.nextie.com/gravel-AGX-700C-NXT45AGX

At 40mm wide that is going too far for road use imo.

[RonK]

These are the oem wheels on my Grizl.

The quality is first class (as you would expect frim DT Swiss).

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/whee ... 400-spline

[warthog1]

These are the oem wheels on my Grizl.

The quality is first class (as you would expect frim DT Swiss).

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/whee ... 400-spline

They are very nice Ron, and yes I would be very happy with them too.

They are more than I would like to spend unfortunately.

[Propagate]

Light Bicycle are conservatively recommending 55psi as the max in a 28c hookless.
I would like it harder than that, so not sure how safe it would be.
Conti rate them at 73psi max, which would be fine.

I don't know the rims so won't comment, but that feels like a lot of PSI to run a gravel tire at.

There's a lot of data out there now suggesting lower PSI rolls faster on gravel that higher.

I know personally, I've dropped my gravel tire from around 70-80psi in tubes in a 38mm Challenge Gravel Grinder tire about 5-6 years afo down to 30-35psi in my tubeless 38c Panaracer Gravel Kings on carbon rims now and the difference is immense. Still fast and likely faster on the gravel but a lot more sure footed on gravel descents.

In fact, when I finally cross checked my floor pump gauge against TWO dedicated gauges (a Topeak digital and a low range Accuguage analogue), my floor pump at 30psi in my 650b 50mm gravel tires was actually 16psi!!! No wonder I struggled to hang on the back of the bunch on the tarmac sections the last few years, awesome on the gravel though.

Check out the SRAM AXS tire pressure calculator, very good and seemed spot on for me now I have a gauge that reads true. For me at 80kg on 50mm 650b gravel tires it suggests 28psi front 31psi rear and rode very well at that last weekend.

For my 700c wheel-set with a 21mm hookless internal width, 38mm Gravel Kings and 81kg rider, on gravel it suggests 39/41

https://axs.sram.com/guides/tire/pressure

Link above for the pressure calc.

[warthog1]

Light Bicycle are conservatively recommending 55psi as the max in a 28c hookless.
I would like it harder than that, so not sure how safe it would be.
Conti rate them at 73psi max, which would be fine.

I don't know the rims so won't comment, but that feels like a lot of PSI to run a gravel tire at.

There's a lot of data out there now suggesting lower PSI rolls faster on gravel that higher.

I know personally, I've dropped my gravel tire from around 70-80psi in tubes in a 38mm Challenge Gravel Grinder tire about 5-6 years afo down to 30-35psi in my tubeless 38c Panaracer Gravel Kings on carbon rims now and the difference is immense. Still fast and likely faster on the gravel but a lot more sure footed on gravel descents.

In fact, when I finally cross checked my floor pump gauge against TWO dedicated gauges (a Topeak digital and a low range Accuguage analogue), my floor pump at 30psi in my 650b 50mm gravel tires was actually 16psi!!! No wonder I struggled to hang on the back of the bunch on the tarmac sections the last few years, awesome on the gravel though.

Check out the SRAM AXS tire pressure calculator, very good and seemed spot on for me now I have a gauge that reads true. For me at 80kg on 50mm 650b gravel tires it suggests 28psi front 31psi rear and rode very well at that last weekend.

For my 700c wheel-set with a 21mm hookless internal width, 38mm Gravel Kings and 81kg rider, on gravel it suggests 39/41

https://axs.sram.com/guides/tire/pressure

Link above for the pressure calc.

Thanks

I run 40c gravel tyres at 35-40 psi.
Hesitant to go lower.
I recently pinch flatted a front tufo thundero tubeless at 35psi.
Struck a reasonable sized rock I didn't see at speed. Holed the sidewall down near the tyre bead.

The higher pressures I mentioned were for if I run them with 28c road tyres.
When we travel I plan on taking the Revolt with 2 sets of wheels. Gravel tyres on the aluminium rims and throw some road tyres on the carbon goers.
Make the bike more versatile if I want to go further/faster on the bitumen.

[Propagate]

The higher pressures I mentioned were for if I run them with 28c road tyres.
When we travel I plan on taking the Revolt with 2 sets of wheels. Gravel tyres on the aluminium rims and throw some road tyres on the carbon goers.
Make the bike more versatile if I want to go further/faster on the bitumen.

Sounds like a good plan.

[baabaa]

Hmm okay here goes- have these and weigh 80 -82 kg
Very long term - lots of usage set of lbs built f and r QR dt 370 Disc, DT spokes TK 540 SBWT Disc 32H rims
Most days o/s shop built f QR SP Dynamo disc hub QR r Hope Pro 4, sapim spokes, TK 540 SBWT Disc 32H
Weekend on road and lots of good if not better dirt roads Hope Tech but factory built QR f and r Pro3, sapim, Open Pro Clincher 32H (but not disc)

The TK 540 are tanks and built for long, long, longer rides and touring - you just don’t need these but I like them

But both, the hope and dt hubs have been oh so easy to have and faultless to use ( we wont talk about my experience with shim disc hubs...)
I do like the hand built wheels, but really I suggest have a look at the hope hoops – don’t know much about the newish Fortus rims but they seem to be well thought out
https://www.hopetech.com/products/wheels/st

You may find what your needs and at a price that may fits?

I kinda like the service and parts of hope vs dt as hope don’t and wont change products that often and all the bits I have - skewers, stems, seat posts, bottom brackets, the hubs and even spacers have been just so easy to own I give them the big yes, have a look.
The hubs all seem to cope with Aust dust and rubbish and even bull dust – I just wash them down post ride with water - my dt hubs are now looking very shabby but still work fine.

[warthog1]

Thanks.
The light bicycle and farsports wheels I am looking at are available with dt350 or 240 hubs.
Will probably go with the 350 due to price.
There are threads on both on WW.
The light bicycle in particular are well liked.

Pretty hard to beat it appears.

[Mr Purple]

Not gravel, but I have Light Bicycle road wheels with DT350 hubs and they've been flawless. Great customer service as well.

[warthog1]

Not gravel, but I have Light Bicycle road wheels with DT350 hubs and they've been flawless. Great customer service as well.

WR50 with DT350 are going to be the go I reckon, thanks

[warthog1]

Yep ordered the WR50 with dt350 hubs, sapim cx-ray spokes and brass nipples.

I haven't raced in a long time but our local club is running a few gravel races.
I am just pack filler these days, but it is fun
The WR50s will be my race wheels.

[warthog1]

Light Bicycle certainly aint quick. Still on the way.
Anyway the standard PX2 Giant wheels are not good.
Got some DT Swiss GR1600 coming also.
The PX2 will be retired. Not a fan. Don't roll well and the freehub keeps sticking, plus they are >2kg.

[foo on patrol]

Light Bicycle certainly aint quick. Still on the way.
Anyway the standard PX2 Giant wheels are not good.
Got some DT Swiss GR1600 coming also.
The PX2 will be retired. Not a fan. Don't roll well and the freehub keeps sticking, plus they are >2kg.

So the bearings weren't upgradable and a new free hub body not possible with these wheels neither? I'm just curious, because I have some Giant wheels that came with the TT bike that I got and they roll pretty good for high pressure wheels. Mind you, I wouldn't race on them, just train on them.

Foo

[warthog1]

Light Bicycle certainly aint quick. Still on the way.
Anyway the standard PX2 Giant wheels are not good.
Got some DT Swiss GR1600 coming also.
The PX2 will be retired. Not a fan. Don't roll well and the freehub keeps sticking, plus they are >2kg.

So the bearings weren't upgradable and a new free hub body not possible with these wheels neither? I'm just curious, because I have some Giant wheels that came with the TT bike that I got and they roll pretty good for high pressure wheels. Mind you, I wouldn't race on them, just train on them.

Foo

The wheel bearings yes. However the wheels themselves have thick draggy seals. They roll like sh it.
The freehub body does not appear serviceable. I got it out but can't get into it. It gets dirt in between the hub body and the wheel and doesn't want to freewheel. It appears you just buy a new freehub.
They weigh over 2kg.

No they are not nice to ride so they are a goner.
I want wheels that are nice to ride and these aren't.

[warthog1]

I watched this the other day.


Yeah it is a dt swiss employee on there so it was a bit of a sales pitch.
Nonetheless they look like good wheels.
I particularly like the feehub serviceability and design.
Glad I ordered dt swiss hubs with my Light Bicycle WR50 wheels too.
They are also now finished and on the way

[trailgumby]

I bought LB rims for my race day XC wheelset back in 2015. Still have them, but they are now the training wheelset on new hubs on the new XC race bike. I was a bead hookless early adopter, and for low pressure applications they have been faultless. They even survived being tacoed at the last Mont 24hr in a crash - all that was required was to release the tension on all the spokes and it sprang back to being straight, and just needed re-tensioning. Gotta love carbon rims.

I run 57mm (2.25") wide Schwalbe knobblies on 23mm inside width at 20psi front/23-25psi rear and have never pinch flatted a tyre. The OEM Hollowgram wheels I am keeping for race wheels are 25mm inside width. A lot of XC guys are now running 30mm inside width with 2.4" (61mm) WT (Wide Tread) tyres.

For road/gravel use I would not use hookless if you intend running pressures above 50psi.

Punctures seem to have quite a lot of prominence in gravel races. I would suggest not running less than 40mm wide rubber, and if you can get something like a Cushcore insert for a tyre that narrow, you will get much better pinch flat resistance with pretty much zero additional rolling resistance. This assumes a sealant-based tubeless setup of course.

I hope that helps. My new CX-based wet weather commuter bike has massive clearance for big tyres so you may see me out there in a gravel race sometime soon

[warthog1]

I bought LB rims for my race day XC wheelset back in 2015. Still have them, but they are now the training wheelset on new hubs on the new XC race bike. I was a bead hookless early adopter, and for low pressure applications they have been faultless. They even survived being tacoed at the last Mont 24hr in a crash - all that was required was to release the tension on all the spokes and it sprang back to being straight, and just needed re-tensioning. Gotta love carbon rims.

I run 57mm (2.25") wide Schwalbe knobblies on 23mm inside width at 20psi front/23-25psi rear and have never pinch flatted a tyre. The OEM Hollowgram wheels I am keeping for race wheels are 25mm inside width. A lot of XC guys are now running 30mm inside width with 2.4" (61mm) WT (Wide Tread) tyres.

For road/gravel use I would not use hookless if you intend running pressures above 50psi.

Punctures seem to have quite a lot of prominence in gravel races. I would suggest not running less than 40mm wide rubber, and if you can get something like a Cushcore insert for a tyre that narrow, you will get much better pinch flat resistance with pretty much zero additional rolling resistance. This assumes a sealant-based tubeless setup of course.

I hope that helps. My new CX-based wet weather commuter bike has massive clearance for big tyres so you may see me out there in a gravel race sometime soon

Thanks.
Yeah done a couple of gravel races on 40mm wide tubeless.
Great fun, but hard!
About 35f 40r psi.
They have both had a bit of climbing and the average speed was 30.4 kmh.
The winner was Tasman Nankervis on both races. He averaged 34.8 with 1266m of climbing in 77k.
Most were running around 40mm wide tyres. Didn't see anything much wider.
Some were narrower. One bloke I know had some zipp 303s with CX singles on. I spoke to him after the race. It was fine he said and he finished in front of me.

Yes I got hookless too.
Have some 32mm road tyres to run on there occasionally also. That is all I could find in stock without paying stupid $. I plan on around 60psi.
Will prob eventually get a 28 for the front and run about the same.
I am 75kg so that'll be enough.

Mostly they will run 40c gravel at 35-40psi though.

Good podcast here on hookless;

https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/nerd-al ... confusion/

If the wheels and tyres are manufactured to the etrto std the 5bar or 72.5psi is a safe max, he is saying.
The LB WR50 wheels are.

[foo on patrol]

Light Bicycle certainly aint quick. Still on the way.
Anyway the standard PX2 Giant wheels are not good.
Got some DT Swiss GR1600 coming also.
The PX2 will be retired. Not a fan. Don't roll well and the freehub keeps sticking, plus they are >2kg.

So the bearings weren't upgradable and a new free hub body not possible with these wheels neither? I'm just curious, because I have some Giant wheels that came with the TT bike that I got and they roll pretty good for high pressure wheels. Mind you, I wouldn't race on them, just train on them.

Foo

The wheel bearings yes. However the wheels themselves have thick draggy seals. They roll like sh it.
The freehub body does not appear serviceable. I got it out but can't get into it. It gets dirt in between the hub body and the wheel and doesn't want to freewheel. It appears you just buy a new freehub.
They weigh over 2kg.

No they are not nice to ride so they are a goner.
I want wheels that are nice to ride and these aren't.

Almost sounds like a cheap n nasty set of wheels, that normal plebs wouldn't know the difference with.

Foo

[warthog1]

Almost sounds like a cheap n nasty set of wheels, that normal plebs wouldn't know the difference with.

Foo

I clearly must be an abnormal pleb
Nah they prob do the job, but I just love good wheels.

The seals and freehub design don't impress me but they are strong.
The gravel races I have done it sounds like someone is throwing gold ball sized rocks at your wheels.
Bit worried about my new carbon wheels copping that, but plenty of others were on carbon.

[trailgumby]

I clearly must be an abnormal pleb
Nah they prob do the job, but I just love good wheels.

The seals and freehub design don't impress me but they are strong.
The gravel races I have done it sounds like someone is throwing gold ball sized rocks at your wheels.
Bit worried about my new carbon wheels copping that, but plenty of others were on carbon.

'
That's one of the reasons I switched to using my (then) nice LB wheels to race day only, went back to the original alloy wheelset for training. It's why I'm keeping the OEM Hollowgram wheels aside for the same purpose on the new bike. Around where I ride, we call the loose rocks "babyheads" because that's how big they are, and they *will* mark up your carbon rims. For some reason alloy doesn't seem to get as brutalised. Heavier alloy makes you work harder when training, so I view that as a plus.

Idea: If you don't like the OEM hubs for probable maintenance effort black holes, maybe get them switched out for something better? Ordinarily, recycling the spokes and nipples on new-ish wheels is rarely a problem, and after a few rides they will have been stress-relieved.

UK's Hope Hubs are well regarded for their reasonable weight, weather-proofness, simplicity and serviceability without being stupid expensive. The only reason I didn't go Hope again with the latest build is they didn't have a microspline version in the boost axle width at the time I was building. I much prefer them over DT Swiss, which I regard as over-priced, over-marketed and fragile.

[warthog1]

That's one of the reasons I switched to using my (then) nice LB wheels to race day only, went back to the original alloy wheelset for training. It's why I'm keeping the OEM Hollowgram wheels aside for the same purpose on the new bike. Around where I ride, we call the loose rocks "babyheads" because that's how big they are, and they *will* mark up your carbon rims. For some reason alloy doesn't seem to get as brutalised. Heavier alloy makes you work harder when training, so I view that as a plus.

Idea: If you don't like the OEM hubs for likely maintenance effort black holes, maybe get them switched out for something better? UK's Hope Hubs are well regarded for their reasonable weight, weather-proofness, simplicity and serviceability without being stupid expensive. The only reason I didn't go Hope again with the latest build is they didn't have a microspline version in the boost axle width at the time I was building. I much prefer them over DT Swiss, which I regard as over-priced, over-marketed and fragile.

The WR50 will be race wheels and when we travel, road wheels.
2 sets of wheels, one bike.

The DT Swiss GR1600 I have coming are aluminium and welded join rims.
DT 350 hubs.
A bloke I cycle with had a bike shop but got out. He rates the hubs and wheels.
I ain't that hard on them anyway and it is on a gravel bike not a MTB.
I reckon they'll be strong enough and are lighter and will roll better than the PX2.
That video I linked earlier didn't rate them for MTB so maybe in that setting they wouldn't be strong enough.

I have never had anything to do with hope hubs but they sound good then.
I can't build wheels and not interesed in spending money on what is a very heavy wheelset.
Still in reasonable condition.
Just going to sell them.

[trailgumby]

I can't build wheels and not interesed in spending money on what is a very heavy wheelset.
Still in reasonable condition.
Just going to sell them.

'
Fair enough

My observation of DT Swiss has been in an MTB context. Their thru-axles tended to break heads off and a few spoke failures, and the DT hub I replaced in the OEM wheelset on the latest XC bike acquisition was disappointing - the cost of parts and tools to upgrade from 18 to 56 points of engagement was more expensive than the non-series XTR hub I swapped in.

But they could be much better in a road / gravel context.

Good luck with it. I look forward to hearing how they go.

[warthog1]

I can't build wheels and not interesed in spending money on what is a very heavy wheelset.
Still in reasonable condition.
Just going to sell them.

'
Fair enough

My observation of DT Swiss has been in an MTB context. Their thru-axles tended to break heads off and a few spoke failures, and the DT hub I replaced in the OEM wheelset on the latest XC bike was pretty ordinary - the cost of parts and tools to upgrade to from 18 to 56 points of engagement was more expensive than the non-series XTR hub I swapped in.

But they could be much better in a road context. My view is coloured I suppose by the fact I can build my own with what I want for a lot less, and having the right tools now I get very reliable results.

Member Nobody has told me to learn to build my own wheels.
Perhaps I could, but that is no certainty
I haven't in any case.

I can see it would be a good skill to have though.
Nice work