Elbow ache in both arms.. really hurting both on and now off the bike

[looseleftie]

Hello all,

I have been experiencing elbow pain over last couple of months or so, to now it has begun to hurt off the bike, not quite as severe but still slightly uncomfortable/achy.

I have moved the seat forwards a little, bought a shorter stem, and feel like my riding position is as comfortable as I can possibly achieve for a road bike.

I am wondering if others have experienced continual sore elbows as a cyclist? Also, how did you manage the symptoms?

Appreciate any help, from a sore cyclist
Looseleftie

[Thoglette]

What sort of bike? Hours per day/week?

[Tim]

I have moved the seat forwards a little,

If anything I'd try moving the saddle back further than it was before.
Moving the saddle forwards puts more weight on the hands (arms, elbows and shoulders)
Conversely, moving it to the rear takes weight off the hands.
This might help if the problem is caused by excessive vibration passing up through the hands into the elbow joint.

[Mububban]

Hello all,

I have been experiencing elbow pain over last couple of months or so, to now it has begun to hurt off the bike, not quite as severe but still slightly uncomfortable/achy.

I have moved the seat forwards a little, bought a shorter stem, and feel like my riding position is as comfortable as I can possibly achieve for a road bike.

I am wondering if others have experienced continual sore elbows as a cyclist? Also, how did you manage the symptoms?

Appreciate any help, from a sore cyclist
Looseleftie

Are you new to drop bars, or been on them for ages and this is a new problem?

[looseleftie]

What sort of bike? Hours per day/week?

Ride a 56 inch frame , I'm 178cm Giant TCR adv... Have shorter stem 65mm from 120mm, and a seat moved forwards.

I ride 225km a week, 5-6 days a week with 2500-300m of climbing per week

[looseleftie]

I have moved the seat forwards a little,

If anything I'd try moving the saddle back further than it was before.
Moving the saddle forwards puts more weight on the hands (arms, elbows and shoulders)
Conversely, moving it to the rear takes weight off the hands.
This might help if the problem is caused by excessive vibration passing up through the hands into the elbow joint.

Funny I thought it the opposite by moving saddle forwards, shortens the reach, and creates slight bend in arms?

[Tim]

Funny I thought it the opposite by moving saddle forwards, shortens the reach, and creates slight bend in arms?

Nah, saddle fore and aft position is all to do with your bodies centre of gravity in relation to the bottom bracket, cranks and pedals.
Imagine you were riding a unicycle.
Sitting directly on top of the bottom bracket your body is balanced in a neutral position.
Moving the saddle rearwards shifts your body weight behind the BB and takes weight off the hands.
Visa versa moving forwards.
In your case though the problem might be more to do with elbow bend rather than weight on the hands and transferred vibration.
I dunno. They're quite big miles you're racking up on a fairly aggressive racing frame. I'd try; saddle back, shorter and HIGHER stem and try and achieve a more upright and relaxed riding posture.

[Duck!]

Do you ride with your elbows locked straight? That will cause problems very quickly as the shock load from road bumps goes straight into the soft tissues in the joints. Bending the elbows slightly in your neutral position on the bike will allow them to bend under impact from road bumps, much better absorbing the shock as your arm muscles are able to act as springs.

Additionally, riding with slightly bent elbows will improve your bike control; as you turn a corner, the outside end of your handlebar moves away from you. If your elbows are already locked at full extension, your whole body will move forward on the bike as the bar swings, exacerbating any forward weight bias that may already exist in your setup. Having a bit of elbow bend enables the outside arm to have some extension room to allow the bar to swing while keeping your body in a stable position.

PS: it's not a 56 inch frame, that's bloody enormous - you could almost step through that without ducking!! More like a 56 centimetre (2.5 times smaller) frame.....

[warthog1]

Funny I thought it the opposite by moving saddle forwards, shortens the reach, and creates slight bend in arms?

Nah, saddle fore and aft position is all to do with your bodies centre of gravity in relation to the bottom bracket, cranks and pedals.
Imagine you were riding a unicycle.
Sitting directly on top of the bottom bracket your body is balanced in a neutral position.
Moving the saddle rearwards shifts your body weight behind the BB and takes weight off the hands.
Visa versa moving forwards.
In your case though the problem might be more to do with elbow bend rather than weight on the hands and transferred vibration.
I dunno. They're quite big miles you're racking up on a fairly aggressive racing frame. I'd try; saddle back, shorter and HIGHER stem and try and achieve a more upright and relaxed riding posture.

I have never thought about seat position like that. I dont (or didnt) move it forward or back long term without always adjusting reach with a longer stem as its gone forward. We arent talking big distances though. I developed my position around racing. Seat position affects hip angle which affects leg clearance and breathing when in the drops. I have it as far forward as is legal to be able to develop power in an aero position. Been like that for so long more set back is horrible as I found when I got my gravel bike. Had to buy a zero set back seatpost to get comfy on it. It helps to be able to get a bit lower in windy conditions to carry some speed too.

I imagine if you slide the seat forward on the rails without adjusting the reach it will make you more upright and take weight off the arms? Haven't tried it though.

Edit; If hands and pelvis move back in relation to the bottom bracket it should take weight off the arms though as you say Tim.

[looseleftie]

Do you ride with your elbows locked straight? That will cause problems very quickly as the shock load from road bumps goes straight into the soft tissues in the joints. Bending the elbows slightly in your neutral position on the bike will allow them to bend under impact from road bumps, much better absorbing the shock as your arm muscles are able to act as springs.

Additionally, riding with slightly bent elbows will improve your bike control; as you turn a corner, the outside end of your handlebar moves away from you. If your elbows are already locked at full extension, your whole body will move forward on the bike as the bar swings, exacerbating any forward weight bias that may already exist in your setup. Having a bit of elbow bend enables the outside arm to have some extension room to allow the bar to swing while keeping your body in a stable position.

PS: it's not a 56 inch frame, that's bloody enormous - you could almost step through that without ducking!! More like a 56 centimetre (2.5 times smaller) frame.....

I ride with slightly bent elbows, never fully locked..
re 56inch frame. It was my second road bike, 8 yrs ago, and I didn't know any different. My local bike shop said it was the correct frame size? I'm only 5'10" with average arm span.. It always feels like I am stretching to reach brakes a little, hence putting on a much shorter stem.. Have to try something to reduce this pain.

[Duck!]

56 inches is 142cm. The frame is not that big! I was picking out your use of the incorrect unit of measurement, rather than the number of units. 1 inch = 2.54 centimetres; multiply that by 56 and it's quite a big difference! Road bikes have for many, many years been measured in centimetres, not inches.

56cm is an imaginary figure on Giant's geometry.

[find_bruce]

56 inches also = 4' 8" - where on your frame do you think that's measured?


Way back when bike frames were made using lugs, top tubes were horizontal, the seat tube length, measured from the bottom bracket to the top tube was a proxy for frame size. This was usually measured in cm from centre to centre.

When top tubes that slopped downward from front to back became a thing, seat tubes became shorter & bike manufacturers didn't want to have to re-educate salespeople with new sizes, so they calculated the effective seat tube length by imagining where a horizontal top tube would intersect with seat tube

Like all numbers that can't be measured easily, the quoted numbers began to drift somewhat from the theoretical.

Experience has taught us in the 10 years that Duck!'s been contributing here that he's usually right

[Duck!]

When top tubes that sloped downward from front to back became a thing, seat tubes became shorter & bike manufacturers didn't want to have to re-educate salespeople with new sizes, so they calculated the effective seat tube length by imagining where a horizontal top tube would intersect with seat tube.

That has not always been the case with various bike brands I dealt with when I was "in the biz"; that "virtual correlation" has more typically been a personal interpretation from shop people, therefore sometimes questionable accuracy.

When top tubes started sloping, different frame manufacturers started mucking around with the upper measurement reference point; some kept it at the centre of the top tube, others use the top of the top tube, some (looking at Giant specifically here) use the top of the seat tube, which throws out really funky numbers when integrated seatposts come into play, and a few use the imagined horizontal references. Then just to confuse things more, other frame builders will use top tube length instead of seat tube to "size" the frame, but that can vary depending on the targetted use of the bike; "endurance" bikes are typically a tad shorter along the top tube than otherwise equally-sized race bikes.....

But we digress from the use of the wrong unit of measurement......

[rkelsen]

How sure can you be that this is cycling related?

Do you also play tennis or golf? Does your job require the use of a hammer?

[AUbicycles]

On saddle position, height will also affect your weight distribution. If you have a race / aero type fit (leaning forward) then moving the saddle back, as was suggested, could shift weight distribution more towards your arms. So in this case, if the suggestion is right could depend.

Two considerations to add, firstly, do you change your grip frequently and do you feel ypu are gripping the bars tightly? If so, adjusting the grip more regularly while riding is worth trying and adjusting tape (e.g thicker tape or double-wrap) may help compensate if you have a tight grip that is causing a strain.

Another factor to consider is if you only have limited upper body work in your daily lifestyle (and all legs). I won’t prescribe bench pressed… but with age, consider if you may need to incorporate exercises (and / or stretching).

Not sure if this input is useful

[Nobody]

Appreciate any help, from a sore cyclist
Looseleftie

Fit has an impact, but it may not be the single biggest factor. However don't ignore it. It's still worth pursuing.

I don't know how old you are, but doing anything 5 to 6 days a week isn't going to leave much time for your body to recover well. Especially as you get older. Maybe try 3 days a week.

The other issue for inflammation is diet. [Yes, I know, everyone's has a good diet from their perspective. But please hear me out.] There are very likely foods you are eating that contribute to inflammation. One mechanism is a low level auto-immune response which is increased by certain foods. Another is certain foods reduce blood flow by thickening the blood and therefore the joint fluid that is derived from it. This restricted fluid flow obviously compromises the lubrication and healing of the jont tissue. This becomes more noticable after 35 y.o. and much more so after 50 y.o.

Foods to try to avoid are:
- Animal products of all kinds - Inflammatory and typically higher in fat.
- All vegetable oils - 100% fat. Slows blood flow.
- High fat foods of all kinds.
- Processed foods - Typically many problems including high in fat and sodium.
- High sodium foods - sodium is a vasal restricter.
- Tomatoes and possibly other so called "night shade" vegetables are known to cause of problems in some people.

Foods to increase:
- Vegetables, especially green leafy - They help vasal dilation, which helps with blood flow and therefore healing.

Initially cut out as much as you can of these foods. The best way to do this is by substitution initially. It might take some time to see a noticeable change, possibly months. If still no good, try removing a single food at a time from your diet for a period of time, to try to identify problem foods individually.