Beginner training, up from the bottom

[Anrai]

Hi!

I'm nowhere near as deep into this as a lot of users here, and probably never will be, but the bottom line is I'm getting into bikes for my fitness and I might as well seek more opinions about how I'm going about it.
I'm approaching 33 coming out of a decade or so letting myself sink out of shape, currently I'm up from my passed by joggers phase and most of what I see zooming past me are more experienced roadies and the occasional e-bike/device. I'm not structuring myself too strictly; I'm wearing a HRM and using a combination of Strava's freshness chart (with the recommendation I've read elsewhere that -20 to -30 "form" is a good area to aim for, which seems to be tracking well with how my body is feeling about it) and putting rest days between any big efforts I'm trying. More advice I've seen that resonates with me is to perform efforts that match the activities I'm trying to improve at. So I'm starting to take a look at my local MTB trail networks, and I've also just moved myself up to a bike path/road route that gives me about 18km of distance with 220m of elevation with a hillclimb averaging about a 5% grade in the middle of it. I'd say my goals at the moment are being comfortable commuting (I did a 26km day a couple weeks ago,) taking a look at MTB Enduro racing (I doubt this Summer, maybe I can get in shape for next,) and putting myself atop the local mountain under my own power.

Health-wise, since I picked up the bike and along with some diet tweaks, I already feel improvements to my general movement, and I'm needing to tighten my belts a bit further. I may have aggravated one of my achilles tendons (spoken to a doctor about,) but it's unclear how seriously; it calms down well with rest, there's no redness/swelling, and it seems to peak along with similar pains around my wrist tendons/carpal tunnel which seem to be connected to an undetermined nervous/neurological issue I've been getting positive results with new medications for. My dad's opinion (decades as a personal trainer and distinguished weightlifting coach) is it sounds like I've overdone stretching, and I've been going easier on it lately.

One thing I'm less certain about is how to interpret heart rate as I exercise: Of course I've heard about the "heart rate zones" which I have read elsewhere here shouldn't be taken too seriously, but if I'm to use the less-scientific testing methods of breathing/speech testing, on the bike I'm capable of parking myself at close to 170bpm without being significantly affected in those metrics (and then the heavy breathing quickly comes on as I bridge there and the 180s,) which seems a bit unusual. While I'm not too concerned with religiously sticking to the "zone 2" routines going around, I do keep myself lower than that if I'm on a more relaxed ride, though if I'm not actively monitoring my HR (e.g. my bike computer mount doesn't fit on my commute bike's bars) I find I default to about 150-160bpm. I think my question here is whether it's a particularly bad idea to hold any of these rates for an extended time? My understanding from self-observation is anywhere over ~140 will gradually degrade my output over time (which tracks with what I've seen of where Strava scales up its effort tracking beyond the baseline "you are doing a physical activity," and the point the Pro Cycling Manager videogames start draining the yellow stamina bar,) though I'm yet to hit a ride length/intensity where I "bonk." But, if my body isn't complaining about it, is that something I can just do without worrying too much? I'm well aware of the concept that just because I can doesn't mean I should.

So to wrap up the post, does it seem like I'm taking a good direction with things, or is there much more I should be thinking about instead? I apologise in advance if I've simply thrown up a wall of concerning garbage.

[g-boaf]

Have a look at this topic: viewtopic.php?t=91287

You are 33 so you are a relative youngster compared to me. Just more riding consistently and gradually increasing the distances and elevation will start seeing you get better.

The guys passing you have got plenty of riding already under their belt, so they'll have muscle strength in their legs and probably good cardio.

If you are getting issues with injuries then you definitely stop and get those sorted out and try to find the underlying causes, if it's an issue with the fit on the bike or something else - that will take time to work out.

[Anrai]

If you are getting issues with injuries then you definitely stop and get those sorted out and try to find the underlying causes, if it's an issue with the fit on the bike or something else - that will take time to work out.

I did talk it over with the doctor who doesn't seem too concerned as long as I watch my technique and don't overdo things. It's not clear there is an injury, when it flared up I took a couple weeks off the bike and it's yet to return to that level, and at this point the pattern is consistent with what's going on with the anatomically-comparable area of my wrists which I'm confident saying isn't an injury. It is getting into the roughest part of the year for my health issues (which fluctuate with the volatile weather Tassie experiences in springtime) and every year there's a little extra piled on. It's definitely something I'll be keeping an eye on. My existing health issues were already a major factor in my history of being reclusive and sedentary.

[peterlip]

...
My dad's opinion (decades as a personal trainer and distinguished weightlifting coach) is it sounds like I've overdone stretching, and I've been going easier on it lately.
...

I don't think i've done any stretching for 35 years (I'm 57).
Its one of those things that I always thought was a bit performative, and my personal belief is warming up the muscle by starting slow, and increasing intencity is more benificial than stretching. But I always thought that was more about my personal bias and hatred of stretching more than anything scientific.
But I recently saw a YouTuber, Dylan Johnson, who quoted a study that showed stretching for cyclists actually reduces performance. From memory, it was unclear how this affected preventing injury, but because it leaned into my dislike for stretching, it was just another reason to not stretch for me.
I'm sure different physiologies have different needs when it comes to stretching, but reading your "sounds like I've overdone stretching" to me is just more confirmation that at the ripe old age of 57, I'm not about to start stretching.

In related news...
Sounds like you're starting to move from beginner to established. As mentioned by another poster, it's all about getting the kms in the legs, so be patient. Don't be afraid of rest days after a period of intensity, and make sure your sleep is not neglected. Very important for recovery.

[Anrai]

I don't think i've done any stretching for 35 years (I'm 57).
Its one of those things that I always thought was a bit performative, and my personal belief is warming up the muscle by starting slow, and increasing intencity is more benificial than stretching. But I always thought that was more about my personal bias and hatred of stretching more than anything scientific.
But I recently saw a YouTuber, Dylan Johnson, who quoted a study that showed stretching for cyclists actually reduces performance. From memory, it was unclear how this affected preventing injury, but because it leaned into my dislike for stretching, it was just another reason to not stretch for me.
I'm sure different physiologies have different needs when it comes to stretching, but reading your "sounds like I've overdone stretching" to me is just more confirmation that at the ripe old age of 57, I'm not about to start stretching.

About a decade ago I started getting calf cramps overnight if I didn't stretch them before bed, and as a teen dad informed me my hamstrings were too tight for weightlifting and that I should stretch them daily (instead I just didn't bother taking up weightlifting,) so I thought it might have been a good idea to start doing it more recently but I've since dropped the hamstring stretches as they're what irritates my heel the most. I'm familiar with Dylan Johnson, I'll look for that video. Maybe consistent cycling is enough to do whatever I was trying to get out of the stretches anyway.

and make sure your sleep is not neglected. Very important for recovery.

Thankfully I finally found a GP this year willing to listen to my growing list of symptoms and take a well-educated stab in the dark with medications, and now I can sleep again!

[2wheels_mond]

So to wrap up the post, does it seem like I'm taking a good direction with things, or is there much more I should be thinking about instead? I apologise in advance if I've simply thrown up a wall of concerning garbage.

Sounds like you're doing just fine. The main thing to improve is just more riding at a variety of effort levels - which it sounds like is mostly what you're doing. Keep it up!

As far as 'zones' go, under a 5-zone model, the equivalent perceived exertion should be along the lines of:

Zone 1: very easy, not an effort at all. As easy as a brisk walk. You should be able to do this all day easily.
Zone 2: a mild effort, but should still be able to talk to someone next to you easily. You should be able to keep this up basically all day as long as you fuel yourself.
Zone 3: a medium effort, talking to the person next to you is possible but not easy.
Zone 4: quite difficult, 20 minutes of this should feel quite difficult, an hour of it should feel like hell
Zone 5: extremely difficult, should only be able to hold for ~3 mins max or less for maximum sprinting efforts

Over time, you'll learn what heart rates correspond with that perceived level of effort. It's different for each individual, so don't worry about what it is for other people, you just have to learn it for yourself.

[Anrai]

As far as 'zones' go, under a 5-zone model, the equivalent perceived exertion should be along the lines of:

Zone 1: very easy, not an effort at all. As easy as a brisk walk. You should be able to do this all day easily.
Zone 2: a mild effort, but should still be able to talk to someone next to you easily. You should be able to keep this up basically all day as long as you fuel yourself.
Zone 3: a medium effort, talking to the person next to you is possible but not easy.
Zone 4: quite difficult, 20 minutes of this should feel quite difficult, an hour of it should feel like hell
Zone 5: extremely difficult, should only be able to hold for ~3 mins max or less for maximum sprinting efforts

Over time, you'll learn what heart rates correspond with that perceived level of effort. It's different for each individual, so don't worry about what it is for other people, you just have to learn it for yourself.

I can pretty easily identify most of these aside from where 2 and 3 meet.
Or, perhaps it's more like my zone 2 and 3 are nigh-indistinguishable on bike and I slam straight from that into the zone 4?
One thing I'm aware of is I possibly have an above-average lung capacity, and from my understanding of how everything works could that be what blurs my 2 and 3? I think it may be more clear during other kinds of physical activity, I believe my breathing picks up a lot sooner on foot, but on bike if I'm not looking at my numbers I sometimes barely notice how high I'm pushing until I realise I'm sweating. I guess that's gonna be an indicator of the medium effort.

The one thing I can say is even out of shape I'm not a stranger to long periods of low-intensity activity. When I was out scouting bike shops in February I got fed up with the bus scheduling and ended up walking about 12k over the day.

And hey, I don't see many other Hobart-based users here. Odds are you've probably already passed me a few times if you ride the cycleway between the city and Moonah.

[2wheels_mond]

I can pretty easily identify most of these aside from where 2 and 3 meet.
Or, perhaps it's more like my zone 2 and 3 are nigh-indistinguishable on bike and I slam straight from that into the zone 4?
One thing I'm aware of is I possibly have an above-average lung capacity, and from my understanding of how everything works could that be what blurs my 2 and 3? I think it may be more clear during other kinds of physical activity, I believe my breathing picks up a lot sooner on foot, but on bike if I'm not looking at my numbers I sometimes barely notice how high I'm pushing until I realise I'm sweating. I guess that's gonna be an indicator of the medium effort.

The one thing I can say is even out of shape I'm not a stranger to long periods of low-intensity activity. When I was out scouting bike shops in February I got fed up with the bus scheduling and ended up walking about 12k over the day.

And hey, I don't see many other Hobart-based users here. Odds are you've probably already passed me a few times if you ride the cycleway between the city and Moonah.

Where those zones are is just something you pick up over time and and finding what heart rate you can hold consistently for a given time period until fatigue sets in. Just getting the data and being aware of how heart rate corresponds with perceived effort is a great start.

And I dare say you probably have - or will - I'm in Montrose and am on the cycleway nearly every day for the commute (and other rides) - yes, even in today's filth! Often spotted in pink with a white Merida roadie.

[foo on patrol]

Don't try and over complicate things with your thinking.

Be consisstant with the riding.

Pick a distance and ride it for 4-6wks and a consisstant effort and on the last week, up the tempo a bit, I said a bit.

The next block of 4-6wks, increase distance by 10klm and ride tempo again like you did at the start of the last block and finish off the last week same way a gain and keep increasing each block until you've done 6mths worth and then you're well under way to some fitness and then you can start mixing up the weekly rides.

Make sure you're hydrated before all rides and during and for longer ride fuelled up.

Foo

[Anrai]

As a rule I try to stay hydrated at all times, and take a bidon with me on every ride which I think I've about half-emptied so far, with a spare I can bring along if I start needing two.
Haven't had to figure out fueling yet but from gut feel I suspect I got very close on my last ride. I've been keeping an energy bar on the bike and I can bump that up to some Clif bars I've got tucked away in the pantry for when I start needing 'em.