Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

Posted: **Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:15 am**

Mulger bill wrote:
jules21 wrote:
outnabike wrote:Bail extended.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-or ... 7569417802" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
you know this isn't all s's and giggles for him, drawing it out like this must be taking its toll on him. although not in the way he is claiming I'm sure.
Here's hoping the ongoing costs bankrupt mummy and daddy.

No complaints here. They have made their bed, they get to lie in it.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:38 am**

It appears that Puneet, who was granted bail mid last year and extended more recently, may again have done a runner.

Reportedly his whereabouts are not known to the Indian police. Also reportedly, he has stated that he will not appear before the Indian court next month when he is due to face hearings and that, in India, his family can continue to support him but not if he is in Australia.

One hopes that the worm squirms for some time to come before eventually being caught again. Also that he costs his parents their family fortune in the process of evasion.

The 24-year-old former hospitality student, who refuses to provide his address, reveals he does not want to return to Australia and claims to be too sick to appear in court.

“I’m prepared to face justice in India and I don’t want to run, but I can’t commit. I can’t. I’m not feeling well. I can’t stand,” he said.

Puneet claimed he was receiving medical treatment for a renal disease which was getting worse.

“In India my parents can take care of me – they can’t take care of me in Australia. I have already been through a lot of guilty,” he said.

Less than two weeks ago the former fugitive had his bail extended until January after a brief appearance before a magistrate in Delhi.

Magistrate Anil Garg extended his bail in the absence of Australian Federal Police officials and Union of India lawyers.

Puneet, supported by his parents, faced court with his mouth covered by a mask and also, inexplicably, had an arm in a sling.

He said yesterday that facing justice in Australia where he could be hit with a 40-year jail term would be “too hard.”

“I’m not prepared to come to Australia because it would be too hard on my family,” he said, breaking down in tears on the phone.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:48 am**

arm in a sling. Nice. I am not surprised he is stressed, taking responsibility for a 40 year jail term crime is supposed to be stressful. That's why it gets done!

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:35 am**

Xplora wrote:arm in a sling. Nice. I am not surprised he is stressed, taking responsibility for a 40 year jail term crime is supposed to be stressful. That's why it gets done!

As you would know the 40 year sentence is a paper tiger anyway.

He continually tries to justify his stance to the ignorant alone with such inaccurate statements.

To the credit of the Indian media they have not allowed him to find traction with his range of arguments that grasp at themes like excessive punishment, that he is the victim and overstated claims of racism towards Indians in Oz.

The Indian courts have also not given him mjuch until bail. The disappointing thing that I see from the Indian justice system was to level such a paltry sum for bail for the risk. Blind Freddy could see the probability of his slinking back to dark places with the support of his parents. The bail should have been sufficient to throw his mum and dad onto the street in view of their own roll in the past to keep him away from the arm of the law. With their continuing financial and other support he may be many years in hiding again.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:51 pm**

Unless more Puneet-ive measures are taken to extradite, this will be the case.

Note for all Indians and Indian expats reading this thread - this case reflects very poorly on your nation, just as Assange and Bryant and Milat and Abbott reflect poorly on Australia. If there is bigotry and racism in Australia, protecting the guilty from justice does nothing to repudiate those beliefs. Save your defence for an innocent, not a confessed scumbag.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:20 pm**

You mean a bloke who did a runner whilst on bail has done a runner whilst on bail. What are the chances

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:49 pm**

Xplora wrote:Unless more Puneet-ive measures are taken to extradite, this will be the case.

Note for all Indians and Indian expats reading this thread - this case reflects very poorly on your nation, just as Assange and Bryant and Milat and Abbott reflect poorly on Australia. If there is bigotry and racism in Australia, protecting the guilty from justice does nothing to repudiate those beliefs. Save your defence for an innocent, not a confessed scumbag.

Whatever

. I don't agree that people trying to dodge the law reflects poorly on the land from which they sprang. I'm not aware of anyone backing Puneet's silly claims about how he thinks he'll be treated. It is however, natural and common behaviour of criminal members of all communities, that they try to avoid the consequences of their actions.

But the reason I bothered to reply at all is to object to the treatment Assange has been given in your post. Assange, if anything, reflects well on Australia, but a better analysis (ie. devoid of empty nationalism) would be he has a particular philosophical view, which says that individuals should be entitled to complete privacy and governments and corporations to little or no privacy. Whether or not you agree with that outlook, it remains the case that he faces no charges at all in any jurisdiction in relation to his website and whistleblowing activities. It is unclear whether he has broken any law, anywhere, in that regard. Accessory to Manning's activities? Yes, but Assange is not a US citizen and he's not ordinarily subject to US law. IIRC Gillard as PM said he had broken Australian law but then backed away from that claim. As for the Swedish charges, the clear breach of British law that has him "languishing" in a flat opposite Harrods in Knightsbridge and the alleged circumstances underlying those charges, you can read about that elsewhere.

Pretty rough putting him the same basket as Bryant and Milat, in the circumstances.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:11 pm**

Xplora wrote:Unless more Puneet-ive measures are taken to extradite, this will be the case.

Note for all Indians and Indian expats reading this thread - this case reflects very poorly on your nation, just as Assange and Bryant and Milat and Abbott reflect poorly on Australia. If there is bigotry and racism in Australia, protecting the guilty from justice does nothing to repudiate those beliefs. Save your defence for an innocent, not a confessed scumbag.

So the actions of 1 out of 1,250,000,000 is the reason there is bigotry and racism?

This is one of the most out there things I've read on ACN in my time.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:47 pm**

Xplora wrote:Racism is a weird card to play.

Punneet, we hate you because you are a bastard of a person. Your nationality makes no difference at all. If I was Indian, I would be ashamed to be associated with your country, colour or creed.

If you want to be treated like a human being, with justice and impartiality in the court, you have to look like you will give it to your victims first. Mistakes have consequences. Face them.

What a coward.

I reckon xplora tried to say the right thing here earlier in the piece, on the first page.
But it is not a feeling easily expressed to have such a total disappointment in others, seemingly protecting a felon. ( ok alleged felon) Of course the others refer most likely to the parents of the accused. I too am frustrated that a known and repeated absconder is let loose in the face of a known running and hiding offender. You have to wonder how seriously the Indianan authorities take the matter, and the Australian depth of feeling.

I reckon a fair bit of anger toward this bloke is justified. Not always easy to express though.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:58 pm**

outnabike wrote:seemingly protecting a felon. ( ok alleged felon)

IIRC Puneet pleaded guilty so convicted felon

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:09 pm**

Not supposed to be putting Assange in the same bucket as Milat - it's ridiculous to allow Abbott to be in the same bucket as the other three - the issue is that your opinion about those 4 people will reflect on your opinion about Australia. There are some concerns about Assange, and there are some heroic stances he has taken - similar to Abbott. We are all good and bad at some point, but we aren't all famous for those things. These guys are.

Which leads me to Puneet - the bloke isn't the only one involved. The Indian legal system is doing a right proper job of looking like a pack of idiots. I appreciate mercy and justice need to be served, but the guy has already pleaded guilty and treated the Australian system like a fool, and a young healthy male capable of deceit and fraud is allowed bail from extradition? The only excuse would be that India honestly believes that killing Australians isn't a big deal... and they wonder why there might be racism against Indians?

My understanding of justice is way too black and white to be nice about this case.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:56 pm**

Thanks for the clarification.

All I'll say is this. You are an Australian citizen. Let's say, for the sake of the discussion, that you did some terrible thing overseas. In what circumstances should the Australian government and legal system cooperate in your deportation to face some uncertain fate in a foreign prison system?

You would hope, we all would, that Australian courts would be careful and measured about sending Australian citizens offshore to face serious legal consequences. And that there would be some protections in place, even though yes, a clever defendant and their lawyer, could take advantage of those protections. And so it is. You can google "Charles Zentai" on your own time.

Puneet's not being extradited from some third country, cf. Assange. He's being extradited from his own country.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:48 pm**

You make it sound like I don't have heaps of time on my hands rogan

I agree that Assange's deportation/extradition situation is a million times more complicated than Puneet's, but I wouldn't want to draw any comparison.

I'm also in favour of "do the crime, do the time" punishment. Puneet's behaviour would not attract a fine in India. It would be prison time. I can't imagine Australians wanting to protect Milat from the death penalty if he was to stand trial for another 7 murders in Texas. Moving away from the specific people (clearly not the best examples I could come up with), justice is important and we aren't talking about a peculiar law to Australia, hit and run while speeding and drunk is a big deal everywhere.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:23 pm**

rogan wrote:
Xplora wrote:Unless more Puneet-ive measures are taken to extradite, this will be the case.

Note for all Indians and Indian expats reading this thread - this case reflects very poorly on your nation, just as Assange and Bryant and Milat and Abbott reflect poorly on Australia. If there is bigotry and racism in Australia, protecting the guilty from justice does nothing to repudiate those beliefs. Save your defence for an innocent, not a confessed scumbag.
Whatever . I don't agree that people trying to dodge the law reflects poorly on the land from which they sprang. I'm not aware of anyone backing Puneet's silly claims about how he thinks he'll be treated. It is however, natural and common behaviour of criminal members of all communities, that they try to avoid the consequences of their actions.

But the reason I bothered to reply at all is to object to the treatment Assange has been given in your post. Assange, if anything, reflects well on Australia, but a better analysis (ie. devoid of empty nationalism) would be he has a particular philosophical view, which says that individuals should be entitled to complete privacy and governments and corporations to little or no privacy. Whether or not you agree with that outlook, it remains the case that he faces no charges at all in any jurisdiction in relation to his website and whistleblowing activities. It is unclear whether he has broken any law, anywhere, in that regard. Accessory to Manning's activities? Yes, but Assange is not a US citizen and he's not ordinarily subject to US law. IIRC Gillard as PM said he had broken Australian law but then backed away from that claim. As for the Swedish charges, the clear breach of British law that has him "languishing" in a flat opposite Harrods in Knightsbridge and the alleged circumstances underlying those charges, you can read about that elsewhere.

Pretty rough putting him the same basket as Bryant and Milat, in the circumstances.

Well said Rogan. And personally I would say that Assange embodies very well an ideal, not at all a reflection of a nation, but an ideal that an individual can stand up to powerful oppressive forces like nations.

Abbott is a whole different story, but regardless xplora is wrong to conflate non-criminal political actors with criminal murderers like Bryant and Milat.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:30 pm**

Xplora wrote:The Indian legal system is doing a right proper job of looking like a pack of idiots.

No xplora, they are looking like any other judicial system in any robust democracy with a judiciary that has integrity.

There has been ONE thing that has gone the way of Puneet, the decision to grant bail and with a modest amount for the risk. However Puneet has faced the court there nearly thirty times and the bail grant is just ONE judgement among a heap of others that he has lost. Time and time again. There is a suggestiont that relevant Australian parties (DFAT, AFP, etc) may have been asleep at the wheel when it happened. I've pasted some of my notes from the time of the arrest in Dec 2013 to January this year that gives an idea of the lack of favour by their courts. There were a couple more failures since until he finally got a decision in his favour.

And while the process has been strung out, a contested application for extradition would take just as long in Australia.

You raised the spectre of racism. I hope that neither the Australian public nor the media go down that route because we'd look like the the tossers, not India. The Indian media have avoided it despite Puneet's idiot protestations made to elicit popular and ugly racist support for his cause.

• 19Nov2013 - Mother, Farther and several uncles booked three rooms at the hotel used on 28Nov.
• Th28Nov2013 - (Also reported as arrested on 30th)Police nabbed Puneet in a hotel in Panipat, 90km north of Delhi where he was meeting with family members. He was dressed in his wedding clothes.
• Sa30Nov2013 - Date of Puneets intended wedding
• 13Dec2013 - Family pleas for help from Indian government to not send Puneet to Australia, being scared.
• We18Dec2013 - Extradition hearing #1, adj to Th9Jan2014, Lawyers claims "hatred towards Indian students in Australia".
• Th9Jan2014 - Extradition hearing #2 (resumed from from 18Dec). Adjourned to Th6Feb2014 "due to absence of some senior members of the counsel".
• Th6Feb2014 Extradition hearing #3 (resumed from 9Jan). Adjourned to Th20Feb2014.
• Th20Feb2014 - Extradition hearing #4 (resumed from 6Feb) - But again adjourned to We19Mar2014 (4th time) "as one of his lawyers failed to appear".
• We26Feb2014 - Court refuses bail plea.
• We19Mar2014 - Extradition hearing #5 (resumed from 20Feb). Adjourned "final time" to Sa19Apr2014 No reason reported yet in media, but "last time" warning from court.
• Sa19Apr2014 - Date set for extradition hearing #6 (resumed from 19Mar). _Subsequntly this hearing was on We23Apr instead.
• We23Apr2014 - Extradition hearing #6 (resumed from 19Mar). Delhi High Court judge "reserved the order for writing and pronouncement of the judgement." Next hearing is set for Th22may2014.
• Tu29Apr2014 - Puneet again refused bail by Delhi High Court (India's highest court).
• Th22May2014 - Date set for High Court's "order" to be handed down. Out of hearing #6 (We23Apr).
• Th04Sep2014 - Puneet sought five days off to "tie the knot. Judge disallowed it, gave him 1 day, had some doubts on the truth of the request as the only evidence tendered was an envelope detailing no date or anything. http://www.deccanherald.com/content/429 ... s-day.html
• Fr05Sep2014 - "Given a day by Delhi HC, accused fails to tie the knot ..."The court asked him to go by Shatabdi and return the same day after tying the knot in presence of the police force. As per the Hindu customs, a wedding can’t be solemnised in a day. So he could not tie the knot,” said a relative at Puneet’s residence in Sector 15 here."
• We29Oct2014 - New Delhi court gave another extension to Puneets lawyer who claimed that he is "still working through the case file". http://www.mygc.com.au/news/gold-coast- ... her-delay/. Australian officials at the hearing accused him outside the court of delaying tactics.
• Su10Dec2014 - Appears in Delhi court reportedly for 25th time. Mother Geeta Rani vouws to fight the extraadition despite mounting debts and complains that he is not a terrorist, "“Mistakes happen, but that doesn’t mean they will ruin his entire life." and that he will die in Australia as Australia is a "racial" country. Time in coustody extended to jan13. He was given a few days reprieve from custody to attend hospital for tests for a "high fever and upset stomach". http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-or ... 7151754491
• Tu13Jan2015 - Date set for about 26th hearing in Delhi. (Set around 10Dec2014)
• Tu13Jan2015-Puneet files his fourth bail plea, this time claiming that he has a urinary infection. "court has given direction today to the Safdarjung Hospital where he is being examined, to just check and see his condition and give a report. That report has been ordered to be sent to the court on 24th of January,” said (special public prosecutor, A.K. Vali)". Main matter" is scheduled for March 3 according to Vali. http://www.indtvusa.com/indian-man-accu ... bail-plea/

In my you may see a lot of aparently dumb pleas put up by Puneet's team. The courts can't stop stupidity being placed before it, but it does have to treat any submissions seriously, no matter how ridiculous.

The law is a slow and, at times. frustrating process. In Oz as well as in India.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:37 pm**

Xplora wrote:You make it sound like I don't have heaps of time on my hands rogan

I agree that Assange's deportation/extradition situation is a million times more complicated than Puneet's, but I wouldn't want to draw any comparison.

I'm also in favour of "do the crime, do the time" punishment. Puneet's behaviour would not attract a fine in India. It would be prison time. I can't imagine Australians wanting to protect Milat from the death penalty if he was to stand trial for another 7 murders in Texas. Moving away from the specific people (clearly not the best examples I could come up with), justice is important and we aren't talking about a peculiar law to Australia, hit and run while speeding and drunk is a big deal everywhere.

I would want to protect Milat from the death penalty no matter where the location. Capital punishment is an abhorrent action made worse by nation-state legality.

In a increasingly globalised world we need to fight strongly for the right moral principles that transcend national preferences and which can be applicable across multiple nation-states. So actually your last sentence is spot on, in that there is little cultural difference in tolerance for hit and run, and should be no legal ambiguity - which makes the Indian judges' decision to grant bail a bit suspect.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:24 am**

If people are keen to see the appearance of a corrupt and/or suspect judiciary, look no further than the horrendous case of Eugene McGee in South Oz.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:41 am**

[quote="ColinOldnCranky"

In my you may see a lot of aparently dumb pleas put up by Puneet's team. The courts can't stop stupidity being placed before it, but it does have to treat any submissions seriously, no matter how ridiculous.

The law is a slow and, at times. frustrating process. In Oz as well as in India.[/quote]

Thanks Collin, Good to see the layout of those proceedings,
A person in the Indian law system would have to have serious doubt as to the claims coming forward from Puneet's side. Skipping bail in any country is a last resort upon seeing the end in sight. I reckon his lawyers would probably be distraught right now as well.
It will be a huge hurdle to overcome and he will surely be dobbed in again for a reward some where.

Posted: **Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:16 am**

Shades of puneet.The officer in his security detail and now dead is challenged......

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/sal ... spartandhp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The high court in the Indian city of Mumbai has overturned Bollywood star Salman Khan's conviction for a 2002 hit-and-run case.
In May, a lower court convicted him of culpable homicide and sentenced him to five years in jail for driving over and killing a man sleeping on a pavement.
Now the high court has said that key evidence - including testimony from a policeman who has since died - was not reliable.
Case timeline
- September 2002: Salman Khan's car runs over five people sleeping on a Mumbai street, killing a homeless man and injuring four others
- October 2002: Khan charged with culpable homicide not amounting to murder - arrested but granted bail
- May 2003: Court rejects his plea to drop culpable homicide charge
- June 2003: Bombay high court drops culpable homicide charge; Khan is then tried for rash and negligent driving
- October 2007: Prime witness, a constable who served in his security detail, dies
- March 2015: Khan tells the court he was not drunk and his driver was behind the wheel
- May 2015: Khan found guilty, given a five-year jail sentence

Posted: **Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:26 am**

ABC News wrote: Puneet Puneet: Indian court postpones extradition case of man convicted of hit-and-run in Australia
The Indian court deciding whether to extradite a man convicted over a fatal hit-and-run in Australia seven years ago has postponed the case for two months.

Puneet Puneet was driving a car which crashed, killing one man and badly injuring another in Melbourne in 2008.

Police said the 26-year-old was drunk and driving at 148 kilometres an hour when he hit and killed 19-year-old Queensland student Dean Hofstee, and seriously injured 20-year-old Clancy Coker in Southbank.

As he awaited sentencing in February 2009 for culpable driving causing death and negligently causing injury, Puneet Puneet used a friend's passport to flee back to his native India.

After several years at large, he was re-arrested two years ago, as he prepared to get married.

He has since been granted bail, and is fighting extradition.

His lawyer Kanhaiya Singhal said a kidney disease he suffers from makes him too weak and he fears racial vilification if returned to Australia.
On Monday he appeared at a brief district court hearing, where some of the evidence which may be used to grant Australia's extradition request was put forward.

Vision of him entering the Patailia District court showed him masked, but walking unaided into the courthouse.

A more detailed consideration of the case for returning him to Australia is due to be heard on March 10, when Puneet will himself face questioning by prosecution lawyers seeking his extradition.

No information on why the delay occurred. But most things in India are for sale - even if some brave souls are fighting it

Posted: **Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:42 pm**

I have made a search for this thread re "Punnet"but just can't find it.

I want to add this to it so maybe a kindly moderator might be able to help. Or even a grumpy over worked one....

Kind of nice to keep all this stuff in the one file.
The poor lad is without his mask but coughing badly for the magistrate.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-or ... cf3832e395
Tawqeer Hussain, In Delhi, News Corp Australia Network
September 27, 2016 10:00pm
Subscriber only

FATAL hit-run driver Puneet Puneet has vowed to fight extradition to Australia “till death” in a court appearance in India yesterday.
Puneet was driving a car that crashed, killing one man and badly injuring another in Melbourne in 2008.
Police allege the 26-year-old was drunk and driving at 148mh/h when he hit and killed 19-year-old Queensland student Dean Hofstee, and seriously injured 20-year-old Clancy Coker in Southbank.
Puneet fled Australia while on bail awaiting sentencing and went into hiding in India.
Puneet’s counsel, Kumar Singal, has asked for a copy of court documents including the complete case history and the detailed investigation done by Indian Ministry of External Affairs officials. The court adjourned Puneet’s next hearing until December 8.
Puneet said he had full faith in the Indian judiciary and that he will fight against the extradition till death.
“I am innocent, I am being framed, the Australian authorities are trying to extradite me based on my confession before Australian police,” he said.
Puneet said he pleaded guilty to the charges at the time due to stress and shock.
“I am not well, still in same condition, need rest,” he said.
His father, Naresh Kumar Singh, claimed his son had a “life-threatening disease”.
“My son is undergoing tremendous trauma from the last 2½ years,” he said. ‘There is no question of sending him to Australia, I am optimistic the court ruling will be in our favour.”
Puneet appeared in court coughing continuously, but was not wearing a mask as he had previously.

Posted: **Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:00 pm**

outnabike wrote:I have made a search for this thread re "Punnet"but just can't find it.

I want to add this to it so maybe a kindly moderator might be able to help. Or even a grumpy over worked one....
Kind of nice to keep all this stuff in the one file.

That would be Punneet Puneet extradition status. Don't know why it doesn't show up in a search- maybe something with the website being rebuilt

Posted: **Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:26 pm**

[Mod] Have been advised that the thread you are looking for is here [/Mod]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=74894

Posted: **Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:04 pm**

Thanks Gents, I've merged the two threads.

Here's hoping that justice prevails over the rupee

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:56 pm**

The saga continues. Frustrating but at least the Indian courts and Australian representatives are persisting.

If he had faced the music in the first place, Puneet would have been free by now.

On my count Puneet has had only a single victory in his many many challenges to the process. And that was being freed on bail.

From http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/hind ... a-would-be

Hit-and-run driver Puneet Puneet tells court extradition to Australia would be illegal
By Mosiqi Acharya 4 Jan 2017 - 11:05 AM UPDATED 4 Jan 2017 - 11:30 AM

Puneet awaited sentencing for culpable driving causing death and negligently causing injury, when he used a friend’s passport and fled to India in 2009.

Puneet Puneet, a former Indian international student in Melbourne who fled to India in 2009 while he was on bail in a hit-and-run case has told a court in India that it would be illegal to extradite him back to Melbourne.

Puneet was allegedly drunk when the car he was driving crashed into two pedestrians, both students from Queensland. The crash killed a 19-year-old student Dean Hofstee and injured another friend 20-year-old Clancy Coker on that fatal night in October 2008.

Puneet awaited sentencing for culpable driving causing death and negligently causing injury, when he used a friend’s passport and fled to India in 2009. He remained in hiding in India before he was arrested by the Indian police in Patiala district in 2013.
Puneet Puneet

He is now fighting extradition proceedings in a court in Delhi in India where on Tuesday he told the court that the crash happened before Australia and India signed the extradition treaty.

Puneet’s lawyer, Kanhaiya Kumar Singal, said the procedure against his client was illegal.

“Extradition arrangements between two countries were signed in 2011,” he said.

Puneet was present in court to challenge his extradition procedure.

The Australian Federal Police has been fighting this case and the lawyer representing Australia on behalf of the Indian Government, Wali Bhaskar told the Herald Sun, that Puneet’s argument was “frivolous”and that the court will decide whether Puneet will be extradited or not.

The next hearing is scheduled before Magistrate Jyoti Kyler on January 23.

I'll be sailing on the ocean on the scheduled next date but others can look it up. But be warned, these scheduled dates are typically delayed without any notice in the media.

Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

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