Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

Warringah Freeway - if you use the pretty ordinary cycle path on the Warringah Freeway between St Leonards to North Sydney/Kirribilli or some of the surrounding areas you may want to look at the below documents.

Lots of little sections will be going or connecting bits, some permanently, some for just a few years during construction. A lot is related to the Western Harbour Tunnel, but rolled in and starting first is the 'Warringah Freeway Upgrade'. Permanently disappearing is the bike underpass linking the bike lane on Merlin Street North to Merlin Street South. Other sections seem to be coming and going, you may want to check your route and write if you have any comment by March 12th. It is a shame to lose any cycleways. The new bus lane to North Sydney will make it very hard to use the North Sydney Freeway exit. I went to an info night and hard to make sense of the complex document and you could read bikes were a low priority. Even worth people just writing and saying please make cycleways a higher priority with this upgrade.

Link for info and comments - https://www.planningportal.nsw.gov.au/m ... ject/10451

12th March cutoff for comments

Hopefully the shared pedestrian / bicycle path along the Gore Hill freeway isn’t being impacted.

Andrew that part isn't impacted, basically everything from there on to the bridge is. Some pretty large changes coming due to the Warringah Freeway Upgrade

Got any tips for us numpties as to where the maps and pertinent info might be found? That's a lot of crud to sort through and I still haven't found the bits that impact the Merlin St area let alone any others.

Given that West St is the major link between North Sydney and the Gore Hill Freeway path, as long as that isn't affected it should be skirt-able. The stretch from Cammeray alongside the golf course will be gone, along with a fair chunk of golf course.

Jim

Jim,

You hit the nail on the head, they released 9,000 pages plus slides and videos, then gave everyone 6 weeks to digest what probably took 100 people a year to develop. There was an info meeting and even asking there had vague answers on what would end up as bicycle paths after. The answer were 'we value bicycle paths' but couldn't point too much. My point is in this day and age, if you are spending hundreds of millions on infrastructure, we shouldn't end up with less for cycling. Especially when it would cost bugger all to add now. They are actually adding ramps in the air and two walkways over the freeway will now have better bike capability (though they already have them), for all this money it is worse for cyclists. It wouldn't hurt people just to ask where the cycling facilities are, so they are aware there is demand.

Agree West St is the main link, but it is pretty crappy and they could add something nice. You are correct about the golf course, it will lose 3 hectares from a 9 hole course, will probably end up 3 holes after! The course only has a few years left on it's lease, while everyone hope it survives it would probably become a park after if it didn't. I am submitting those buildings should be built over the freeway, 3 hectares from a green lung in a very dense are is a fair bit which can never be recovered.

I will try and find the pertinent bits and link here, I understand the difficulty. This video / images page https://v2.communityanalytics.com.au/rms/wht/gallery shows in the images section at the bottom how the Cammeray section will disappear. On the same page you can see the Earnest St slider, the after shows more bicycles but of course there is actually less spots for them to go.

Will find some pertinent sections and link.

familyguy wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:33 pm

Given that West St is the major link between North Sydney and the Gore Hill Freeway path, as long as that isn't affected it should be skirt-able.

Do what I do ... Skip West St all together. I go through Crows Nest instead. Not a fan of the narrow footbridge, the narrow footpath with the poles in the middle of it and having to wait to cross the busy freeway entry road, all of which sit between West St and the cycle path at Naremburn. Using Crows Nest skips all that.

Gee wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:34 am

Jim,

You hit the nail on the head, they released 9,000 pages plus slides and videos, then gave everyone 6 weeks to digest what probably took 100 people a year to develop. There was an info meeting and even asking there had vague answers on what would end up as bicycle paths after. The answer were 'we value bicycle paths' but couldn't point too much. My point is in this day and age, if you are spending hundreds of millions on infrastructure, we shouldn't end up with less for cycling. Especially when it would cost bugger all to add now. They are actually adding ramps in the air and two walkways over the freeway will now have better bike capability (though they already have them), for all this money it is worse for cyclists. It wouldn't hurt people just to ask where the cycling facilities are, so they are aware there is demand.

Agree West St is the main link, but it is pretty crappy and they could add something nice. You are correct about the golf course, it will lose 3 hectares from a 9 hole course, will probably end up 3 holes after! The course only has a few years left on it's lease, while everyone hope it survives it would probably become a park after if it didn't. I am submitting those buildings should be built over the freeway, 3 hectares from a green lung in a very dense are is a fair bit which can never be recovered.

I will try and find the pertinent bits and link here, I understand the difficulty. This video / images page https://v2.communityanalytics.com.au/rms/wht/gallery shows in the images section at the bottom how the Cammeray section will disappear. On the same page you can see the Earnest St slider, the after shows more bicycles but of course there is actually less spots for them to go.

Will find some pertinent sections and link.

Thanks, that'd be great if you did. I'll try to dig some parts out as well. Anything that makes it easier for others to put forth accurate comments to the planners.

Am I seeing right though? 'Replacement of Falcon St pedestrian and cyclist bridge'? In the same line? Guess they can't be trusted to put in a road below it without accidentally knocking the thing over. Now that's a link that is used a lot, it's the major connection for anyone coming from the beaches to North Sydney and the city. Good move, TfNSW...echoing what they're doing with the Beattie Bush bridge at the western end of the Anzac bridge.

AndrewCowley wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:42 am

familyguy wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:33 pm

Given that West St is the major link between North Sydney and the Gore Hill Freeway path, as long as that isn't affected it should be skirt-able.

Do what I do ... Skip West St all together. I go through Crows Nest instead. Not a fan of the narrow footbridge, the narrow footpath with the poles in the middle of it and having to wait to cross the busy freeway entry road, all of which sit between West St and the cycle path at Naremburn. Using Crows Nest skips all that.

I rarely use that Cammeray link path unless I'm coming back from North Ryde, it's the one tragic part of that whole run from Lane Cove Road to North Sydney. Narrow, rarely cleaned, and just plain dangerous for someone who is not a confident bike handler. Turning right at the climb to the shops at Naremburn and slinging down Willoughby Road far easier, or there are back roads if you're not confident.

Jim

familyguy wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:49 pm

I rarely use that Cammeray link path unless I'm coming back from North Ryde, it's the one tragic part of that whole run from Lane Cove Road to North Sydney. Narrow, rarely cleaned, and just plain dangerous for someone who is not a confident bike handler. Turning right at the climb to the shops at Naremburn and slinging down Willoughby Road far easier, or there are back roads if you're not confident.

Jim

Yep, that is exactly what I do. I use Willoughby Road but I join up with West St near the intersection with Falcon Street. From there it's the same as if you took the crappy route that parallels the freeway.

Am surprised more don't go that way.

Jim you were reading that right. They are knocking down that $7M bike path/walkway to replace with same! It seems the supports aren't in the right place. Those of us without an unlimited budget would probably build new supports and then see what we had to knock down, reinforce, etc.

The underpass which is disappearing is right to the left of that bike path when entering from Merlin St. Pretty handy and safe way to get to the other side of Military Road.

They are also replacing the walkway/bike path across the freeway at Ridge St for the same reasons.

Andrew you are right, Burlington Street is a nice street to cycle down


Feel a little disappointed they couldn't give cyclist a dedicated 2m down the side and separated from the freeway. Especially for the section Jim mentioned. Had been in Shanghai late last year and the cycleways carry the same volume of traffic as the roads.

Am I correct in thinking you won’t be able to stay on the freeway from Millar St to the exit at Alfred St?

Bruce I believe you are correct, it will be difficult. If you were on Miller St turning onto the freeway (which is presently a cycleway) there is no chance, that will disappear. That cycleway joins up to Earnest St, but will be no more. If you are already on the freeway it may almost be possible but there will be a bus lane running down to the Alfred St exit and also a car lane but no shoulder. I don't think it is too hard keep up with traffic downhill but they are actively discouraging it. If you look in Chapter 5 here - https://majorprojects.planningportal.ns ... .182%20GMT top of page 5-5 it say under Public and Active transport - "Pedestrian and cyclist traffic would be excluded from the mainline tunnels and ramps." By that comment they may put signs in which will make it an offence.

These sliders give a view of what is happening, the one labelled 'Alfred St North" shows a bit. Also the Miller St one. The above Chapter 5 has a lot of good diagrams, the cycleways are tiny little bits which never join up!

This makes it easy to see what all the chapters refer to, I am checking now but Chapter 5 seems most useful - https://v2.communityanalytics.com.au/rm ... s#chapters

find_bruce wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:14 pm

Am I correct in thinking you won’t be able to stay on the freeway from Millar St to the exit at Alfred St?

Yep, that's where is disappears from. That said, I've never ridden that piece, personal pref being one of the West St/Cammeray/St Leonards routes. Although the link from Miller St to even Ernest St has been helpful, sliding into the golf course fence at the bottom of the hill.

What are the chances of the government screwing up two major cycling routes at the same time!

Jim

Apologies for such a long and verbose post, after a lot more reading, meetings etc I have a better understanding of the impact of this. Upgrades to the freeway seem to be about once a decade, this combined with the beaches link will be the new reality for a decade if nothing changes. Also worth noting that it isn’t just the freeway we are talking about, it is the surrounds encompassing both freeway crossings and surrounding traffic.

A project like this shouldn’t just maintain the status quo, it should progress things forward. Pedestrians and cyclists gain no more crossings of the freeway, in fact we will have less while the existing ones are being rebuilt. This will restrain any future paths being built. Cyclists lose existing paths. It also delays all local traffic, bringing some more frustration to the roads which affects us all. It doesn’t really matter if you are a daily user and local resident or an occasional user, it is worth putting your objection in.

If there is a ‘form objection’ the Dept of Planning looks at them as one objection, so I will just give a few guidelines:

First state your relationship with the road and area, local resident, regular user, user, etc. Then, if you agree, state:-

• I object to a nett loss of cycle paths with the WFU & WHT

• I object to the loss of cycleway from Miller St to the Earnest St cycleway

• I object to the loss of the Falcon St/Military road pedistrian/cycleway underpass at Merlin St which joined the Earnest St cycleway to the Winter Ave/Yeo St cycleway

• I object to the apparent loss of the cycleway from Brookes St to Earnest St


If you are a local or just so inspired you may want to add:

• I object to any nett loss of green space

• I object to the 3 hectares of Cammeray Gof Course being resumed for industrial buildings and ask that these buildings be placed underground (like they are at Rozelle) or over the freeway

• I object to the ventilation stacks being unfiltered, especially as they areso close to schools and cycleways.

• I object to the traffic delays this project bring to the local community.



The link for info and to put your objections in is - https://www.planningportal.nsw.gov.au/m ... ject/10451 - submissions are from the top right, a blue button. These close 30th March but you can put an objection in today and update.


Hope this helps and any questions ask away.

Gee

Have notified Bicycle NSW about this EIS, they had put in comments in 2018 about this project, assume they will want to put in a statement now when it is at the pointy end.

Just wanted to wrap this up for the moment. Both Bicycle NSW and Bike North were very responsive and wrote letters of objection which can be viewed on Planning NSW website.

Bicycle NSW - https://www.planningportal.nsw.gov.au/m ... ion/711006

Bike North - https://www.planningportal.nsw.gov.au/m ... ion/711031

Well done by both to take the time to object to a loss of cycling facilities and poor design.

I only just noticed this thread. Wish I'd seen this in time. This has a major impact on most cyclists commuting from the Northern Beaches to the CBD and return. What a disaster if it goes ahead as proposed.

Thanks for organising responses.

Hi Trailgumby, put a comment in anyway even if just your post above. There has been plenty about extending the submission time due to CV19, which didn't happen but North Sydney Council did get an initial extension as they had 9 staff on it full time and couldn't finish in time.

Planning NSW have said they will read late submissions but wont publish or respond to them. So worth ten minutes to get one more submission saying 'what about bicycles'