Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

Rather than putting this in the Shed I think it is probably more appropriate here in Track.

Can you take glued singles off and then just put them back on again without any regluing?
I find the whole glue thing a bit of a mystery. I have heard much conflicting advice on how to glue, mostly around how many coats.
My own experience (limited) is that seemingly any amount of glue and 160psi - those suckers aren't going anywhere. But is that true? I am probably missing the point of glue - maybe it is when you lose psi during a race (for mysterious reasons) and the glue is what saves you rolling a tyre?

Anyway, looking for a bit of an education and any examples of gluing gone bad please?

Cheers,

FT

If on the road and you puncture you can have the new rubber put back on the rim and there will be a certain amount of stickiness remaining for the new one to stick on.

Now for Track, you can tack them off and set them aside for a later date, if you only have one set of wheels for racing and and you want to preserve a very good set for important race meets like major Carnivals States and Nationals but you will still need too apply another coating of glue.

Never had a problem with rolling a tub under race conditions after I have pulled one off and repaired a puncture and re-sown back together and glued back onto rims and that includes fronts.

Re coats of glue on rims........Well unless you're going to use shellac, the that isn't a worry for you. Some glues say coat rim and tub and then wait till it is dry/tacky to touch and then mount but I prefer the glue to still have a little ability for movement when placing on the rims, due to being able to align tub centrally on the rim.

I also don't believe in stretching tubs prior, to fitting, as I want them sitting on the rims as tight as possible, yeah there maybe some cursing swearing grunting puffing and all out anger at times when fitting but I like them to stay there.

I will never race on the track without singles! Why you ask? Well if you do get a flat/slow leak, your not going to be riding on the side of your rims and that means, that you, have more control over keeping yourself upright.

Does this help, if not ask more questions?

Foo

Thanks Foo, so whenever you take one off, you reglue do you?

ft_critical wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:19 pm

Thanks Foo, so whenever you take one off, you reglue do you?

Yes, without fail.

Foo

Thanks. Will source some more glue.

As a whinge, the whole process of singles is far from cheap compared to clinchers. Glue is the same price (tin not tube) as a new GP 5000, and each tyre at least double the cost. (Not seeking any answer to this)

ft_critical wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:16 pm

Thanks. Will source some more glue.

As a whinge, the whole process of singles is far from cheap compared to clinchers. Glue is the same price (tin not tube) as a new GP 5000, and each tyre at least double the cost. (Not seeking any answer to this)

Well I'll give you one anyway.

I just ordered a tin of glue and it's nowhere near the price of an over inflated cost of a 5000 Conti and will glue 12 tubs. I will also take a tub over a clincher for when you get a flat, because you don't end up on the rim and sliding around on the black top or track. I pay around $100 for my Track tubs and if you want a real fast clincher, you will pay the same. If you're only looking at coffee shop rides and training, then you would ride something like a Rubino Pro, not $80+ clinchers, because that is just a waste of money for my thinking.

Foo

foo on patrol wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:51 pm

If you're only looking at coffee shop rides and training, then you would ride something like a Rubino Pro, not $80+ clinchers, because that is just a waste of money for my thinking.

I've been through a few sets of Yellow Jerseys 3 for $50US (+postage) tubulars and they're the cheap-and-cheerful tyre - much better (rounder) than the cheap Vittorias or similar entry level stuff I've tried (road only - no track use)
Only available in 21mm so perfect for tight track frames.

You can occasionally find Challenge "Elite" for about $35AU, (handmade apparently and their top-line stuff is really good) but I've not used these so can't comment beyond the great price.

Thoglette wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:15 am

foo on patrol wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:51 pm

If you're only looking at coffee shop rides and training, then you would ride something like a Rubino Pro, not $80+ clinchers, because that is just a waste of money for my thinking.

I've been through a few sets of Yellow Jerseys 3 for $50US (+postage) tubulars and they're the cheap-and-cheerful tyre - much better (rounder) than the cheap Vittorias or similar entry level stuff I've tried (road only - no track use)
Only available in 21mm so perfect for tight track frames.

You can occasionally find Challenge "Elite" for about $35AU, (handmade apparently and their top-line stuff is really good) but I've not used these so can't comment beyond the great price.

Postage would nearly be as much as the tyres, wouldn't it?

I paid $25 each for the Rubino Pro clinchers when I got them. I only run Conti Sprinters on my Road racing wheels and Vittoria's on the Track but am looking for alternative for the Track, once I've worn out my current batch. The base of valve area on the high end Vittoria's is weak and have had two brand new failures and two that have started leaking after 6mths of use and at a cost of $100+, that doesn't make me a very happy person.

Foo

Interesting, I was just logging in to ask you your brand of glue (carbon safe) and $100 tyres. Though I said I was running Corsa's only one is a Corsa, the other is a Schwalbe. It must be very old as, although unused, now that I have run it on the rollers a few times it has started to crack (tread) and peel (sidewall). Whilst I understand this is still okay, I am probably going to bin it and get a new tyre. So what is the recommendation for a $100 track tub then?
And, where from? (this stuff never seems to make the boxing day sales )

ft_critical wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:27 pm

Interesting, I was just logging in to ask you your brand of glue (carbon safe) and $100 tyres. Though I said I was running Corsa's only one is a Corsa, the other is a Schwalbe. It must be very old as, although unused, now that I have run it on the rollers a few times it has started to crack (tread) and peel (sidewall). Whilst I understand this is still okay, I am probably going to bin it and get a new tyre. So what is the recommendation for a $100 track tub then?
And, where from? (this stuff never seems to make the boxing day sales )

I've just waited for any sales that turn up. I wouldn't get the Vittoria CS Speeds but go for the CS Pista. I have gotten mine from Probike and Merlin the last few times. Have given Wiggle the flick because of their high spend for postage.

The only Conti's I have for racing are on my Road wheels because they don't play nicely on the Annadome = slippery. I do have the plain CS Pista (175psi) for use on Outdoor Tracks and they are good and work well on the Indoor as well.

Foo

These are nice but as I said, they are weak at the valve area of the tube. I now use a pair of pliers or vice grips to hold the valve when placing the chuck on.



This is a much better one and can be used on both in and outdoor Tracks.



Foo

Thanks Foo.

I have the CS on the front as pictured. Only used on rollers so far.

I need black walls, so am looking at these and a tin of Mastic glue to reglue the front and put a new tyre on the back - thoughts? (for indoor boards and outdoor concrete [even tarmac])

https://www.merlincycles.com/en-au/cont ... 88445.html
https://www.merlincycles.com/en-au/vitt ... 11104.html

Vittoria corsa evo ks and then cx used to be my go to.
Seems they are no longer though.
No probs with them anyway.

ft_critical wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:44 pm

Thanks Foo.

I have the CS on the front as pictured. Only used on rollers so far.

I need black walls, so am looking at these and a tin of Mastic glue to reglue the front and put a new tyre on the back - thoughts? (for indoor boards and outdoor concrete [even tarmac])

https://www.merlincycles.com/en-au/cont ... 88445.html
https://www.merlincycles.com/en-au/vitt ... 11104.html

The Tempo's are different to what they were and supposedly better than a couple of years ago and they look to have the same surface as the Sprinters.

The Vittoria Speed should be a quick tub but not sure how the valve base is on them, I have a mate that has had them as a clincher and said they were fast.

They are both great prices.

I just got a tin of Mastik so am yet to use it.

Foo

For boards like Dunc Gray / Annadrome: Vittoria Pista Evo is the number 1 tyre in the world for wood, Veloflex Record great value for the money, Continental Sonderklasse used to be the best but are ridiculously expensive. None of these will last a lap on a concrete track. Well the Veloflex will last a few laps but are not designed for concrete. Avoid tyres with that silica compound (such as the Tempos) as they are slippery on wood.

For concrete tracks: I use a light road tubular tyre like Vittoria Corsa. Challenge Criterium come in black as does Veloflex Corsa. These tyres do not have the fancy silicon compounds either. Silicon may be ok on a road tyre but I dont trust those compounds on a track, especially a lightly banked one.

For road use: Continental Competition. Tried and tested and proven reliable when all other brands have failed. I never use anything else on the road. Best tyre ever invented. Tyres like the Pirelli P Zero look good for road use but I will never know.

Vittorias for track
Conti's for road
Vittorias are too flimsy for road use.
Contis too sturdy for track use.


PS I thought this was a dating thread

You wanna go out with me, DD?

There is a new Vittoria available but it will burn a big hole in ya pocket. It's called ORO and price $250 at a place I know as an introductory price but online I'm seeing $350 for them at most places.



Foo

foo on patrol wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:33 am

Postage would nearly be as much as the tyres, wouldn't it?

Not quite! Despite the exchange rate today.

Seriously, even with Aust Post’s Dropbox usury you’d land them for c. $40ish each.

But YJ ship direct which has been much cheaper.

And usually there’s a few people around here who need something small but specific from YJ and will split the cost of shipping, if you can be bothered.

It's okay if you have someone close to you I guess for extras in the order to break down the postage cost.

Foo

Thanks DD some great wisdom there, but too late, the Vittoria tyres were sold out and I bought a Conti Tempo II. I guess if I rough it up a bit on concrete before Dunc I will survive. If I slip off, one might suggest I was not going fast enough The tyres on my old Pistards were Conti Ultrasports.

Looking at the reviews for them, it would seem that the new compound has made a difference in them, because as I said, I had Tempos on one set of wheels and they didn't give me a lot of confidence on the boards as they had this feel of...........you move direction suddenly and we are going to dump you on your arse.

Foo

Why not rim tape?

ft_critical wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:11 am

Why not rim tape?

"Never", use rim tape on the Track. Track and Road racing are two totally different situations. If you want a big ban from racing, that will do it. It is not, acceptable for Track and unless things have changed, it wasn't allowed.

Foo

and do people still repair singles?
I went through hell with a few, but they leak over 150psi, bad sew (my lack of skills) and the tube sit uneven inside.
That with the ones that re-sewable. Some just not made to open up for the heart surgery.

I give up at the end. Finish my singles, switch to open tub (clincher) with Conti Supersonic and never looked back. Now I can run my tyres to the end of tread.

slidetaker wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:37 pm

and do people still repair singles?
I went through hell with a few, but they leak over 150psi, bad sew (my lack of skills) and the tube sit uneven inside.
That with the ones that re-sewable. Some just not made to open up for the heart surgery.

I give up at the end. Finish my singles, switch to open tub (clincher) with Conti Supersonic and never looked back. Now I can run my tyres to the end of tread.

Never had a problem with them leaking or sitting crooked once sewed back up.

Foo