It will NEVER happen here!

[LateStarter]

From the BBC "Tips from the Netherlands on how to build a nation of cyclists"

"..As countries face pressure to reduce their carbon footprint, many climate experts recommend the promotion of cycling as an easy way to cut emissions. .."

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-57944428 (2m44s video)

[Cyclophiliac]

From the BBC "Tips from the Netherlands on how to build a nation of cyclists"

"..As countries face pressure to reduce their carbon footprint, many climate experts recommend the promotion of cycling as an easy way to cut emissions. .."

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-57944428 (2m44s video)

It will probably not happen there either. From what I've seen on the UK's CycleChat forum (of which I've been a regular member for some time), the UK and Australia have a very similar attitude to cyclists. They'd see the environment go to hell before promoting cycling.

[trailgumby]

From the BBC "Tips from the Netherlands on how to build a nation of cyclists"

"..As countries face pressure to reduce their carbon footprint, many climate experts recommend the promotion of cycling as an easy way to cut emissions. .."

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-57944428 (2m44s video)

It will probably not happen there either. From what I've seen on the UK's CycleChat forum (of which I've been a regular member for some time), the UK and Australia have a very similar attitude to cyclists. They'd see the environment go to hell before promoting cycling.

The common element: News Corp and other fossil fuel propaganda factories news organisations dominate the media landscape.

[g-boaf]

From the BBC "Tips from the Netherlands on how to build a nation of cyclists"

"..As countries face pressure to reduce their carbon footprint, many climate experts recommend the promotion of cycling as an easy way to cut emissions. .."

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-57944428 (2m44s video)

It will probably not happen there either. From what I've seen on the UK's CycleChat forum (of which I've been a regular member for some time), the UK and Australia have a very similar attitude to cyclists. They'd see the environment go to hell before promoting cycling.

The common element: News Corp and other fossil fuel propaganda factories news organisations dominate the media landscape.

Problem is that even some cyclists support the views and opinions of News Corp and fanatically promote the opinions of News Corp even though this organisation is very anti-cycling in the articles it runs.

Cycling in Australia in the easy way it is overseas like in France or other places won’t happen in my lifetime.

[Cyclophiliac]

It will probably not happen there either. From what I've seen on the UK's CycleChat forum (of which I've been a regular member for some time), the UK and Australia have a very similar attitude to cyclists. They'd see the environment go to hell before promoting cycling.

The common element: News Corp and other fossil fuel propaganda factories news organisations dominate the media landscape.

Problem is that even some cyclists support the views and opinions of News Corp and fanatically promote the opinions of News Corp even though this organisation is very anti-cycling in the articles it runs.

Cycling in Australia in the easy way it is overseas like in France or other places won’t happen in my lifetime.

Yes . One of the hardest things about this pandemic for me is not being able to travel back to France to cycle in those glorious mountains, and enjoy cycling in a country where cyclists are just other road users, not 'cockroachs' or 'lycra louts' or 'scofflaws', etc. I was lucky enough to be able to visit France every year from 2016 to 2019 to cycle in the Alps and/or Pyrénées, and I miss it badly .

[rkelsen]

From the BBC "Tips from the Netherlands on how to build a nation of cyclists"

Yeah, it'll never happen here. There are several reasons, but this is a big one:

Area of Amsterdam = 220 km2
Area of Melbourne = 9,993 km2
Area of Sydney = 12,368 km2

European cities were built before cars, therefore they're more compact. Everything is within walking distance, making it much easier to live there without a car.

And attitudes are different. Aussies will drive 700m to the supermarket... Stupid when you think about it.

[AdelaidePeter]

From the BBC "Tips from the Netherlands on how to build a nation of cyclists"

Yeah, it'll never happen here. There are several reasons, but this is a big one:

Area of Amsterdam = 220 km2
Area of Melbourne = 9,993 km2
Area of Sydney = 12,368 km2

European cities were built before cars, therefore they're more compact. Everything is within walking distance, making it much easier to live there without a car.

And attitudes are different. Aussies will drive 700m to the supermarket... Stupid when you think about it.

I think you are comparing Amsterdam city to the metropolitan areas of Melbourne and Sydney, which isn't really an apples to apples comparison. If you instead look at the Amsterdam metropolitan area, then according to Wikipedia it is 2580 km2, with about half the population of Melbourne. So it's denser than Sydney or Melbourne, but only by a factor of 2. Though perhaps that factor of 2 is still significant.

I agree on attitudes though. Another is public planning, with some suburbs designed assuming everyone has a car, with no provision for pedestrians, let alone cyclists.

[g-boaf]

The common element: News Corp and other fossil fuel propaganda factories news organisations dominate the media landscape.

Problem is that even some cyclists support the views and opinions of News Corp and fanatically promote the opinions of News Corp even though this organisation is very anti-cycling in the articles it runs.

Cycling in Australia in the easy way it is overseas like in France or other places won’t happen in my lifetime.

Yes . One of the hardest things about this pandemic for me is not being able to travel back to France to cycle in those glorious mountains, and enjoy cycling in a country where cyclists are just other road users, not 'cockroachs' or 'lycra louts' or 'scofflaws', etc. I was lucky enough to be able to visit France every year from 2016 to 2019 to cycle in the Alps and/or Pyrénées, and I miss it badly .

And the best thing, it isn't Amsterdam! It is nothing like that mythical cycling mecca... A lot of places you don't find any special bike paths or infrastructure, you just ride on the road and that's the normal thing, it's accepted and nobody seems to get upset about it.

It's a great place to be riding a bike.

[brumby33]

It looks like it takes a pandemic for Government officials to realise that there are other ways to get around other than public transport or the car.
Pop up bicycle lanes especially in Sydney weren't even heard of before Covid and now they're popping up everywhere, much to the disdain of many motorists as the speed limit has been lowered considerably.
Problem with Sydney is that the bicycle paths go for only a short distance then stop and you have to go on public roads again to either continue where you're going or to get to another bike path. Oh and too many hills.

I've been watching you many tube videos on bike path rides around Melbourne and you guys have got it great down there with all those bike trails, not only in Melbourne surrounds but in many easy to get to regional towns as well. A cycling mecca down there compared to up here.

I began a thread a year or so ago about considering a move down there to Melbourne(before this Covid thing began) and I'm still thinking about it seriously as I'm about to go into retirement soon, you have 3 bicycle touring clubs down in Melbourne, nothing like that in Sydney, you have bike trails all around Victoria.....this will be as close to European Cycling we're bound to have here in Australia.
Victoria also has another avenue for me and that's metal and gold detecting which i enjoy but rarely get much time for.

Whilst Australia is no Euro bicycle haven, it's better than it was, even in Sydney.

Problem is by the time that most of the State Government elections are next to come up, hopefully most of the pandemic has been wound up and to lobby for new bicycle infrastructure may be harder to get.

brumby33

[rkelsen]

If you instead look at the Amsterdam metropolitan area, then according to Wikipedia it is 2580 km2, with about half the population of Melbourne. So it's denser than Sydney or Melbourne, but only by a factor of 2.

I wasn't trying to comment about density. The point I was trying to make was about distance.

Using your figures, Amsterdam is one quarter the size of Melbourne and one fifth the size of Sydney in terms of geographical area.

Therefore it stands to reason that the distances people have to move to get to places is substantially shorter.

Selling cycling as a serious mode of transport is an easier task when the shops and offices are a 10 minute walk down the road.

[bychosis]

Problem is that even some cyclists support the views and opinions of News Corp and fanatically promote the opinions of News Corp even though this organisation is very anti-cycling in the articles it runs.

Something I’ve learnt from the rise of conspiracist theories and the associated nut jobs is that they don’t all believe the same stuff and they pick and choose ‘carefully’ what they believe in and support. Case in point, the anti lockdown protests over the weekend and banners claiming ‘Jesus saves’ vs ‘the government is trying control you’ vs ‘I don’t believe it’s dangerous’ and the bunch of loonies that we’re there just to protest with no real beliefs.

[warthog1]

Was a bit harsh and insensitive for those who live in Melb sorry.
My family still lives there.
House prices and congestion are less than ideal in anyway.

[fat and old]

Meanwhile Melbourne is gradually transforming traffic lanes into seg. paths all over the place. Pretty well connected as well. Even been quite a bit of resheeting of the lanes where cycling is to go

[nemo57]

Meanwhile Melbourne is gradually transforming traffic lanes into seg. paths all over the place. Pretty well connected as well. Even been quite a bit of resheeting of the lanes where cycling is to go

True, dis. Since my transformation from desk slob to cycle slob I've been delighted with the extent of Melbourne's cycling infrastructure. Granted, it's not as commute-extensive or entirely bike-focussed as Amsterdam, but it's easy enough to find well over 100 km of paths from, say, Point Cook in the west to Dandenong in the east, south to Mordialloc and north to Craigieburn with barely a wheel turned on the road. And maybe there's more but I haven't been there yet.
Mebbe it's a "national" issue like NSW's "national" COVID problem.

[g-boaf]

Meanwhile Melbourne is gradually transforming traffic lanes into seg. paths all over the place. Pretty well connected as well. Even been quite a bit of resheeting of the lanes where cycling is to go

True, dis. Since my transformation from desk slob to cycle slob I've been delighted with the extent of Melbourne's cycling infrastructure. Granted, it's not as commute-extensive or entirely bike-focussed as Amsterdam, but it's easy enough to find well over 100 km of paths from, say, Point Cook in the west to Dandenong in the east, south to Mordialloc and north to Craigieburn with barely a wheel turned on the road. And maybe there's more but I haven't been there yet.
Mebbe it's a "national" issue like NSW's "national" COVID problem.

It could be ripped up. Up here in NSW we rip up good cycling infrastructure and so cars can park more easily.

[nemo57]

Aye aye aye ... Much of our infrastructure is under local-council control. That which lies off-road is probably safe (apart from other users, of course) but you're right for the stuff on-road.
e.g. Geelong website sez "we're encouraging" yet last year they voted to spend $2M ripping up the green spine of Malop St that had just cost them $8M to install ... OTOH the lefty pinkos of Moreland and VicRoads between them are embarking on major restrictions to Sydney Rd favouring trams, peds & bikes. Dunno how the shopkeepers will like it, but being a local I'm all for it.

[Mr Purple]

Here in Brisbane we're lucky enough to have the V1 veloway. 17km of completely offroad bikeway with only a few intersections to negotiate; most of which will eventually be bridged over.

I work 23km from home in the other direction, and honestly if we had an East-West veloway of a similar standard I'd probably ride it at least four days a week. Unfortunately the alternative is currently Old Cleveland Road which has marked bikeways - but unfortunately one of the the 1% of drivers who think it's hilarious to drive half in the bikeway lane would eventually kill me.

Although I'm not a huge fan of e-bikes and e-scooters I'm half wondering if their increased use eventually they will lead to better offroad cycling infrastructure. So we'll only have to cope with being buzzed by 50km/hr e-scooters rather than 70km/hr cars.

[Thoglette]

Selling cycling as a serious mode of transport is an easier task when the shops and offices are a 10 minute walk down the road.

This is a choice, a choice the Dutch made incrementally and over a period of 50 years, choosing to build livable cities rather than urban sprawl.

We, on the other hand, made different choices.

It also misses a major point: if you commute long distances in the Netherlands (e.g. intercity), you use a train. You ride to your local station and park there (or get the tram) and use a tram (or hire bike) at the other end (if you don't have your N+1 locked up there).
Don't get me wrong: there's plenty of freeways and (happy) driving but it's one of a range of options.

The extensive tram networks in Australia were killed with malice aforethought and it's going to cost a shed load of money to reinstate them.

It could be ripped up. Up here in NSW we rip up good cycling infrastructure and so cars can park more easily.

The only bit of "Sydney exceptionalism" I buy into is the problem of 2GB (and related stations). No other major city in .au has such a phenomenon as your shock jocks, who have NSW politicians running scared.

[fat and old]

Here in Brisbane we're lucky enough to have the V1 veloway. 17km of completely offroad bikeway with only a few intersections to negotiate; most of which will eventually be bridged over.

There is app. 140km between my Nth suburbs house and peninsula house (Melbourne). The bike path runs behind my back fence. I get on that, and around 110km is off road path, 99% of which is excellent condition. I'm lucky in that.

lefty pinkos of Moreland

[LateStarter]

10 years ago I was working in Melbourne 3 days per week, most weeks. I came very close to moving and a big factor was the excellent bike / running path network, but it didn't happen.