Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

The other day I visited a local bike store to buy some bits . Not my usual store . There are a few others in my area and really they are all the same .

As I was just getting a chain and some other bits I looked around with the thought of " can I buy a sensible bike of good quality for my gurl"

There was one bike that could fit the bill if it was to go away from the bike I want . Where is a sensible , stylish bike suited to Sunday Arvo cruising ? Where are those bikes if you have growing kids ? . Of course you can go to a supermarket and buy a bike that's poorly built and assembled , will rust after the first time it's left out in the dew and more than likely have gears and tyres wildly inappropriate for the task .

I feel for families with kids . Where are the coaster bikes that just keep going and going ?

Maybe it's all driven by the " race centric " culture that the bike industry really is following when ..... Seriously... What percentage of people that ride bikes have ever entered one race event ? I would love to know . I know that buying a new bike , for me anyway , means finding a good used bike ( or a basket case ) and making it good . How hard is it for Doug the accountant with 3 teenage girls?

I watch the bike farmer a bit on YouTube and I reckon he is spot on getting an older Trek and getting it nice is way way better to get a decent bike because .... In my observation ( and I'm not in Tokyo or Amsterdam) the sensible bike is becoming a rarity

Bought a nice 26 inch steel frame "mens" bike with mudguards , single speed coaster rear , side stand and rack for $60 yesterday. I don't need the bike but I had to save it ..... So I need to count my bikes in actual working machines now ... Otherwise I have a bike problem if she finds the key to the container

Dent wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:24 pm

………..

Maybe it's all driven by the " race centric " culture that the bike industry really is following when ..... Seriously... What percentage of people that ride bikes have ever entered one race event ? I would love to know . I know that buying a new bike , for me anyway , means finding a good used bike ( or a basket case ) and making it good . How hard is it for Doug the accountant with 3 teenage girls?

I watch the bike farmer a bit on YouTube and I reckon he is spot on getting an older Trek and getting it nice is way way better to get a decent bike because .... In my observation ( and I'm not in Tokyo or Amsterdam) the sensible bike is becoming a rarity

Yes and No…

While I would agree that bicycle market has gone a bit silly in recent years, I don’t think it has much to do with “race centric” “culture”
I think the figures would show that sales of race bikes and “race-like” bikes has declined in recent years- indeed so has the sport of bicycle racing (in Australia at least)

The things that are in greatest demand appear to be e-bikes - especially the ones that are basically not really bicycles at all, are more on the motorcycle end of the spectrum.
It’s just another example of strange consumer behaviour.

Some would say that it is driven by the “industry” but I’m not sure- it’s the old chicken and egg scenario.
I think it’s more consumer-driven and a (perplexing) manifestation of what is “fashionable” or “in vogue”

Just look at how bizarre are the fashions in motor car sales - at a time of economic hardship, shortage of space and congested roads, the biggest selling cars are very large, very expensive, very powerful and NOT very environmentally responsible.

So I don’t think that there is much “race-centric” impetus in bicycle sales. Not in recent years.
Maybe, 20 years ago for a little while when the latest Cervelos were “racing” off the showroom floor.
And maybe in the late ‘80’s/early 90’s when everyone wanted something that looked fast, preferably with big oversized aluminium frame tubing.
I think there was a time in the mid-1990’s when “hybrid” style bikes were suddenly in vogue.
Indeed I got one of these - a Shogun Metro SE - and it was a remarkably sensible and practical do-it-all machine.
It’s a shame that they don’t still make it I spose.

I wonder why people can't just ride their bikes without having to judge everyone else.

One thing for sure is that new bikes are far too expensive. Components as well. I got lucky with a top end S5 Cervelo just before Covid hit at $11K.

The best thing we can have is more people riding more often. That makes it better for us all and increases the chances of more infrastructure being built.

I have no interest in what bikes other people ride - if they are out there riding bikes then good on them.

Latterly I have stumbled into a shop and found something that not only looked improbably fragile (and likely/possibly... fast), but also grossly overpriced for the 1.22kg weight saving over my own GIANT TCR! I kid you knot, all SRAM Red and grey and shiny silver, but that's a very steep price for such a tiny weight saving.

And no, they wouldn't let me take it for a test ride — without a deposit!

It's a thing it seems. To draw an analogy....years ago my wife and our family lived on an island which only had golf for my sporting life . I had played golf at school and lots of hockey and cricket . So I've got a good swing and my handicap tumbled with practice . My clubs were pretty good . My wife asked me " would you like some new clubs ?" . My reply was " there is more wrong with my game than my clubs " .

I guess you can figure that out . So unless you are testing the performance boundaries of your current ride .. is it worth it ?

Elantra makes good points as usual...it's a tricky subject .I return to my words about the availability of decent sensible bikes in most bike shops . We had a fella here for a while who offered such things . A modest shop front . One man who loves cycling having a go . Sponsored some social rides . Not scared to offer refurbished bikes that make complete sense .... Could not sustain the bike shop . In a healthy cycling community in a city with loads of bike tracks for cruising , commuting or doing silly down hill stuff that makes sense to young shavers until you go over the bars and go for a ride in an ambulance.

As I become more educated in how bikes work ... Things as simple as using a terrific lubricant or using a tyre that really works make lots of difference

And ... Would you remove the logos/stickers from a bike to improve its optics or make it less overt when out and about?

Or does that lose something that really has nothing to do with the cycling experience? The Giant TCR I have here is hideous ... It even has makers marks on the inside of the spars from the bottom bracket to the rear drive as well as markings up the seat post ....man it get it it's a Giant TCR but can we have it a bit easier to look at ?

I knocked up a good American alloy frame 6061 alloy I think into a bike today with whatever I had . White cables .. black cables ...roughly restored bars and a nice adjustable gooseneck ... Just make it good. It is but it looks like ... What it is a solid bike that you could ride the rubber off for next to nothing

As g-boaf says " why judge " . Just get out and ride

If you race you will pick the difference a more modern bike makes.
Deeper wheels, lighter more compliant tyres with better rolling resistance.
A better helmet, narrower bars, a more aero position an aero frame.
I have a few bikes and have raced. Can bang out 100km at reasonable average power.
I have a new aero bike running deep wheels and decent tyres. Yes it is faster than my old trainer drone.
Everything is tracked on strava and I no longer race but still like to push my body to achieve a reasonable ride in my terms.
If you are an enthusiast, as many on here are, yes you will note the difference decent gear makes.
No you don't need to spend 18k but for a few thousand you can get a very nice bike that performs noticeably better than a heavier, round tubed, shallow rimmed goer. Pay your money and make an educated choice.

CmdrBiggles wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 03, 2024 5:22 pm

Latterly I have stumbled into a shop and found something that not only looked improbably fragile (and likely/possibly... fast), but also grossly overpriced for the 1.22kg weight saving over my own GIANT TCR! I kid you knot, all SRAM Red and grey and shiny silver, but that's a very steep price for such a tiny weight saving.

And no, they wouldn't let me take it for a test ride — without a deposit!

That's not a bad price for that. Improbably fragile I don't think so - you'd be surprised, they are fairly tough.

The price, they are all expensive now - new Trek Madone over $20K. Almost double the price of my S5 with SRAM Red AXS.

Re the Factor Ostro VAM — the hideously ugly seat-stay junction ruins the aesthetics for me.
Otherwise, it is a Pass + 5 in the eye-candy stakes!

It has a bit of damage on the left and right drop-bar areas through freight mishandling.
There will be a second roadie for me in the future, but it won't be the VAM...

For bike shops, if you look at the margins they make on bikes, they have to sell a lot more entry level or lower priced bikes (volume) and fewer high-end bikes to hit the same mark.

Doing both is tough because everyday bikes need to be marketed in a different way to performance bike as the 'buyer' is different. There is still cross-over - regional shops, chain stores and bike brand store who have something for everybody (but limited to their brands) but a trek or specialized store will still skew towards middle and higher end. Giant have a broader spectrum but their entry level can still be higher than you may find at other shops.

On the flip side you will have speciality bike shops that main carry race bikes (or MTBs) and want to push high end but still have entry level and maybe a few other bike types to fill the gaps... Or you have 'family bike store' that mainly carry the bike suited to their local audience and maybe a couple of performance bikes, just in case.

Dent wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:24 pm

Where are the coaster bikes that just keep going and going ?

In the past.

Before kmart and target and co flooded the market with cheap two wheeled rubbish, at the bike shop (or lawnmower and bike shop) you got simpler bikes compared to today and they were also more robust and easier to fix. Now cheap supermarket bikes have gears and suspension forks and are built from rubbish steel or aluminium with low quality parts - they fill the initial gap for a lot of families who think they get a cheap bike... It is hard for bike shops to explain the price difference to customers when they have a bike that appears to be the same but is double or triple the retail price.

Rescuing old bikes is still the best way if you can DIY.... though for families who are not tech savvy and need to go to bike shop, getting a second-hand bike back up to speed can feel financially unattractive (those supermarket bikes give the impression of being better value).

The kids who populate the footpaths around my home are not riding K-Mart or Target cheapies.

A few of those bikes I see each morning cost well over $3,000 (MTBs/downhillers) and the riders too (Year 10/12) have the form and skill to use them, exhibiting some quite exciting bunnyhops and swings over gutters.

We've come a very long way indeed from taking the kids to K-Mart to be sat on a steel framed bomber and ride out the door happy as Larry. Today, I see them gathering around future trusty steads in bike shops, parting with their own pocket money (from double shifts at Maccas) and the money courtesy of the second mortgage on the house to buy each of the kids the bike of their dreams.

Steel, heavyweight beater bikes have their place. At the tip.

Well over 50% of bikes sold in Australia are from those discount supermarkets… when sport or brand consciousness cone into play families spend more and go to bike stores and know why they are paying.

I recall when BMX Bandits was out and the BMX crazy grew even faster so kids who were never going to race, went for those bikes and some of the kit.

Whether it is sport or jumping onto a trend (or both), its better equipment that should have a better lifespan… even when they are not steel frames and the resale value takes a dive - these ‘ex-good quality’ bikes can be the best value if you know what you are looking for.

CmdrBiggles wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 07, 2024 2:41 pm

The kids who populate the footpaths around my home are not riding K-Mart or Target cheapies.

Agree. Unless the child is under primary school age for the bikes ridden past my place, it's not a BSO.

I think many treat bikes like mobile phones = evrytime a new model comes out, they have to have it and just like mobile phones, the new models are never cheaper than the surpassed model.

I will never buy a brand new bike because I won't spend over $1600 on a bike/frame. I also don't believe there is any value in the new bikes of today but if you have plenty of money nad can afford to spen$10000+ on one then good luck to you but I've never been trendy but I am thrifty and look for value for money. My next purchase would be a near new 2nd hand Track frame but even that won't happen till I get some serious fitness and speed happening.

Foo

Ok ...some interesting words there. Steel bikes are here to stay . The kids riding the $3000 bikes that they were presumably gifted .. would they be happy if the Oldman stripped the bike of its livery .. like... Yeah it's a great bike and I know that ... Do you need to broadcast it ? . I had an apprentice under my guidance a few years ago. Up and coming young fella good at the downhill competition. No money for a car or to equip himself with tools of trade . He had a deadly bike. Got his tool allowance and bought another bike without selling the other one . My daughter got a new bike as a young teenager . For weeks it sat around . She did not like the colour . That did not matter when she was an Ethiopian adoptee and I taught her ride bikes from an early age and was happy just to be cycling on some little machine I made out of broken bikes we found living in the desert . No doubt .... Well in my view .. bikes are a blend of the necessary and style . Each of which sort of become fluid.

Simple stuff like my " get on.. go .. don't have to be too worried about it bike " does not have any panniers , lights , bell, stand and I've stripped the front rings away to simplify the drivetrain and if I need range and endurance I'll take the Trek FX instead . Or if it's Sunday the Dutch
Bikes get a long slow roll

foo on patrol wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2024 5:31 am

I think many treat bikes like mobile phones = evrytime a new model comes out, they have to have it and just like mobile phones, the new models are never cheaper than the surpassed model.

I will never buy a brand new bike because I won't spend over $1600 on a bike/frame. I also don't believe there is any value in the new bikes of today but if you have plenty of money nad can afford to spen$10000+ on one then good luck to you but I've never been trendy but I am thrifty and look for value for money. My next purchase would be a new new 2nd hand Track frame but even that won't happen till I get some serious fitness and speed happening.

Foo

I look at it differently and am still working so different financial circumstances.
Riding my bike is my mental health.
I do it quite a bit and spend 10+ hours a week on the bike.
I don't buy new bikes alot but have bought a couple in the last 3 years.
The first, a gravello introduced me to hydraulic disc brakes. Better tyre clearance and reliable, consistent braking regardless of weather or surface.
I am a fan.
Decided to also buy a new roadie a few months back. 12s disc brakes, bigger tyres, di2. I am impressed.
I spend quite a bit of time on it so why not enjoy that time.
Who knows what is around the corner?

foo on patrol wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2024 5:31 am

I think many treat bikes like mobile phones = evrytime a new model comes out, they have to have it and just like mobile phones, the new models are never cheaper than the surpassed model.

I will never buy a brand new bike because I won't spend over $1600 on a bike/frame. I also don't believe there is any value in the new bikes of today but if you have plenty of money nad can afford to spen$10000+ on one then good luck to you but I've never been trendy but I am thrifty and look for value for money. My next purchase would be a new new 2nd hand Track frame but even that won't happen till I get some serious fitness and speed happening.

Foo

My first bike in 1977 was absolutely heavy and slow, costing all of $245. Under the tutorage of a cranky Englishman who edited TROCHOS magazine for touring cyclists (who cheerfully gave him the bird when he came looking for a donation of $5.00 each copy...), he didn't give me much hope of becoming a good cyclist on my first ride out with him on a group intro tour. Fortunately, that first ride was all downhill and I had a blast! I persisted with that heavy and slow bike for 2.5 years before getting a light Reynolds 751 custom frame build, the result of hooking up with another (German) touring cyclist who was mad keen on designing bikes as a hobby, and he designed my first tourer for me. I think back then it cost $1,000 complete. Today, the same thing would cost about 4x that amount, BEFORE groupset stuff is added! I don't call that value. I call it being fleeced.

Trendies exist in Hipsterville in Melbourne. They ride fixies (aka Fitzy Fixies, commonly seen around Fitzroy, Collingwood, Northcote and Fairfield). But I'm not a trendy. I'm a convert, a born-again MAMIL. I didn't know what current trends were there, what was desirable, when I began scouting for a road bike back in August-September '23. Knowledge was gained slowly — on the road, in shops, speaking to people and on this forum. Then I had to deliberate (many long nights...).

Of bikes, I ride them and look after them, recognising they have a solid foundational purpose in the transport system (that is where the true value is!), but they must also must be rewarded with TLC (which costs money going forward) for the faithful service and enjoyment so willingly provided — very expensive road bikes will need this (chains, rotors, brakes, freewheels, cranksets all require periodic scouting for anything untoward). Money spent on a bike may cause you to gulp hard, but at the other extreme, it is a scandalous misuse of money when people spend $60,000 to $90,000 on a monster ute (in a cost of living crisis, no less...).

I think it is true that the more you pay for a bike, the more you get from it (to a point!); maybe not 'value' as many people interpret it, but quality as yet many more people do. End of the day, just remember that bikes of any persuasion, heavy and steel, alloy and fleety, carbon and sexy, they're all better than a car — popcorn compared to running a V6 Geelong-Melbourne-Geelong, and faster through infuriating traffic bottlenecks that are none of my doing. Where I work, 9 out of 15 staff ride multi-modally on and off-road e.g. ride only (paths, on-road, parkland or ride+train (me). A small number, including me, must occasionally use a car which is frankly a nightmare in the city.

Your last paragraph is telling.
Only a bike — any sort of bike, will equip you with the speed and fitness you need if you put in the effort. And that has to start somewhere. On yer bike!

Cycling folk. Yes . Wise words . Whilst my work truck is a modest 2.8 litre CRD 4x4 that apparently American utes eat for breakfast ( seems they prefer actual food drive throughs ) it tows my builders trailer /camping trailer where I need to go. At any point if I need to travel I look at one of my bikes first. Just the reduction on wear in a modern diesel engine by not warming it without real need saves more than you think . My truck is 6 years old and has a nudge over 60 000 behind it . If it is well maintained , kept away from the elements and used for the purpose I bought it for it will last until I cannot buy diesel. There is always a bike on the truck . Need smoko ?

My local independent grocery store is about 700 metres from my place . I challenge anyone to leave my place with a list of 8 things and be back faster and easier than going on the bicycle. It's a little like going fishing when you live near the water. If the gear you need for exactly what you want to do is ready to go ..then you will go .. if you need to find this and that and pump up a tyre and something else then it gets clunky . I'm fortunate..from where I sit there are 5 ready riders next to the patio door but inside . Dent wants to go to the beach . Gone in seconds . That is part of what it is all about

Seems you can still get very practical bikes these days. The current trend of gravel bikes would have to be one of the most practical out there, basically the modern version of the shogun metro mentioned earlier. Most kids in my area ride the other kind of very practical bikes out there, the humble entry level hardtail MTB. Which can still be had for much better value than a Gravel bike, and with a quick change of tyres can be better suited to mixed surface riding if that's your thing.

Reality is that most bikes are recreational in this country, so you don't have the same 'city' bike options like are available in other parts of the world. But nothing stopping you chucking a rack and guards onto a hybrid or gravel bike.

foo on patrol wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2024 5:31 am

I think many treat bikes like mobile phones = evrytime a new model comes out, they have to have it and just like mobile phones, the new models are never cheaper than the surpassed model.

The flip side is that some people spend smaller amounts on lots and lots of bikes/frames and then the amount is also a lot.

I don't buy new bikes that often so when I do get one it's a higher end machine and it gets used a lot. One bike at more than 30,000km, another one (from 2020) approaching 20,000km, despite covid times interrupting.

The get used for commute purposes as well, sometimes they go up and down mountains. At least they are used a lot.

I agree with things you folk have written in the main. AUbicycles got it right about good quality older bikes and " the real value here is in the older bikes " . Define sensible . The purpose of this thread was basically" if I want a good quality ladies Dutch bike or beach cruiser for my gurl " . In a city of 160 K plus people and a huge less populated region around it .... There is a good number of specialist bike shops selling and servicing the bikes that ....well let's just say ... suit the burgeoning market for fibre and folk that clomp around in cafes in clip-on's or keep the ambulance service busy scooping them off hillsides . The closest bike I could find ( which spawned this rant ) that came anywhere near what would suit my gurl was a 26 inch swoop bar beach cruiser for $599 . But she is tall . 700c country . That's when Mr loving husband gives up and goes to Walmart and buys a bike that's crap . So it's get ripped off , get ripped off .. or go back in time to the local bike and sports shop with an old fella in an apron and grease under his nails knowing this bike belongs to his mates kids or aunty . Or just do your own bikes . Screw trends and pressure . The amount of joy I get from teaching kids to ride , building and servicing bikes , taking a few bikes and making something unique that is fun to ride and so much more

warthog1 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 21, 2024 9:18 am

I spend quite a bit of time on it so why not enjoy that time.
Who knows what is around the corner?

Damn Straight!!