Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

I commute to work and do so in all weather conditions. I've usually gone with rear braking out of habit but am finding that with this method, I'll skid the back.

On the face of it, this is fairly obvious. When stopping, some weight of the bike is moved to the front wheels and as such, traction is lost. Having tested the brakes plenty during the commutes, I still have yet to lose traction with a hard front wheel brake. There's little on this topic on google and I don't want to find out during a descent what happens when you brake with the fronts hard so hopefully you can help me out before I deck myself.

In your riding experience, what is the best method for braking to avoid lock ups at high speed in a corner or whilst simply going straight?

I know the best method is to slow before a corner but when commuting you'll generally have a car pull in front mid turn and yeah, it'd be nice to know what to do to stay in control.

First, don't brake in the corner (unless your name is Schwantz or Valentino in which case a little rear can be used) - front brake will result in a low-side, rear a high-side.

As you note, the front is where all the work happens. Both my regular bikes will pick up the back wheel before locking up -the problem is any bump, leaf, sand or distraction and it'll be all over. But then's the brakes

If you look at motorbikes rather than bicycles, you'll find there's buckets written on it.

The front is the go for power. Shifting weight back is useful for really strong braking. If you must brake mid corner I'd be feathering the rear, but for the non superhuman of us the full cornering ability of your bike probably isn't exhausted and you could probably corner tighter. Look wher you want to go and go there.

Thoglette wrote:
If you look at motorbikes rather than bicycles, you'll find there's buckets written on it.

Motorcycle braking theory is useful to a degree, but the fact that motos have front and rear suspension means that racers will often apply front brake well into a corner entry (called trail braking) which causes the front suspension to compress, shortening the wheelbase, which makes the bike quicker to tip in to the apex.
I would imagine a shift in body weight backwards would have a proportionately larger impact on rear braking traction on a bicycle compared to a motorbike as the rider's bodyweight makes up a far greater % of the combined mass.

Thoglette wrote:First, don't brake in the corner (unless your name is Schwantz or Valentino in which case a little rear can be used) - front brake will result in a low-side, rear a high-side.

As you note, the front is where all the work happens. Both my regular bikes will pick up the back wheel before locking up -the problem is any bump, leaf, sand or distraction and it'll be all over. But then's the brakes

If you look at motorbikes rather than bicycles, you'll find there's buckets written on it.

So is a rear slide much more manageable than a front slide?

In dry weather the front brake does most of the work- in wet weather I tend to feather both front and rear to limit lock ups.

With road bikes a skid/slide tends to be very abrupt and you have to be good and quick to catch it. But rear slides tend to be easier to regain control (only my humble opinion- no sciencey stuff to back this up)

Grabbing a handful of front brake mid corner will stand the bike UP which is exactly what you don't want in an emergency.
Ideally you use a lot of front brake before the corner with the rear on as well, release the front brake as you enter the corner -this will lay the bike over a bit, then release the rear brake after that to lay the bike over that last little bit to take the corner at a good lean angle.
If you must brake mid corner then use both brakes equally, Ive never seen anyone lose the front in the dry, obviously in the wet you need to be a bit careful how hard you are braking. But with good tyres you can brake hard on the front even around wet corners.
On my sons bike I run super soft grippy Schwalbe Ultremo ZX for training, yes I have to replace them OFTEN but its peace of mind for me especially when he's careering down Macquarie Pass in the wet ..even on dry days the hairpins are damp.

In my experience using both brakes almost all the time is the most effective. Different bias for different situations though.
Cornering or little grip then more rear bias because you don't want the front to lock up as that will lead very quickly to the front going out from under you and eating dirt. If you are only washing off speed, not stopping, then rear only can be quite effective.
Straight and good grip then more front braking because of the weight being loaded to the front wheel. Braking hard enough with the front that the rear lifts is normal so you shift your weight back to counteract.
A bit of rear wheel skid can be controlled fairly easily either cornering or straight. Front wheel skid is very hard to control.

Brakes are not on or off, but applied at varying pressures. Using both and adjusting the braking to the conditions will lead you to better braking. Practice on poor surfaces will teach you what is most effective and the instinct will eventually get you braking most effectively. My braking instinct has come from lots of MTB riding in all conditions, mostly with poor grip.

ItsDank wrote:

Thoglette wrote:First, don't brake in the corner (unless your name is Schwantz or Valentino in which case a little rear can be used) - front brake will result in a low-side, rear a high-side.

As you note, the front is where all the work happens. Both my regular bikes will pick up the back wheel before locking up -the problem is any bump, leaf, sand or distraction and it'll be all over. But then's the brakes

If you look at motorbikes rather than bicycles, you'll find there's buckets written on it.

So is a rear slide much more manageable than a front slide?

A rear slide is generally quite easily recoverable. A front slide generally isn't. I have recovered many many rear slides, some were even deliberately started. I have had several front slides, all but one resulted in a bad crash, the one I recovered I don't know how I did it....

The front brake provides about 75% of your stopping power; even without a lot of front brake the rear will tend to lock as you squeeze more on because you don't have the inertia pushing the rear tyre onto the ground.

As others have said, do your braking before the corner; your forces are much more in balance when you're going straight. Use the front, and push yourself back over (or even off) the saddle to help keep the back wheel down. As you corner, release the brakes, roll through the corner (outside leg down!), then power up as you straighten out. If you're descending, release the front as you turn in, and lightly drag the rear just to control the speed a you approach the apex. As you cross the apex, let go the brake & just send it.

A rear slide is relatively easy to ctach by releasing the rear brake & counter-steering slightly. A front slide needs a super-quick reaction to stop you going down. You need to quickly steer out of the corner to get the front tyre gripping again. Sometimes it can help to also give a quick dab on the rear brake to kick a slight rear drift if you're threatening to run out of road before you've turned in properly.

mick243 wrote: some were even deliberately started..

Mad skidz.

I love locking the rear and sliding to a stop with the back hanging out, my tyres don't love it and it's not efficient braking but I suspect it comes from my coaster braking days as a kid Normally I have some front braking to go along with the rear skid too on a bike with hand brakes.

mick243 wrote:

ItsDank wrote:

Thoglette wrote:First, don't brake in the corner (unless your name is Schwantz or Valentino in which case a little rear can be used) - front brake will result in a low-side, rear a high-side.

As you note, the front is where all the work happens. Both my regular bikes will pick up the back wheel before locking up -the problem is any bump, leaf, sand or distraction and it'll be all over. But then's the brakes

If you look at motorbikes rather than bicycles, you'll find there's buckets written on it.

So is a rear slide much more manageable than a front slide?

A rear slide is generally quite easily recoverable. A front slide generally isn't. I have recovered many many rear slides, some were even deliberately started. I have had several front slides, all but one resulted in a bad crash, the one I recovered I don't know how I did it....

Noted, I'll have a go at feathering the front and putting more load at the rear for most situations where I'm not going straight.

Front brake slows you down much better, as others have noted just don't grab a handful of it whilst cornering

Front. Front. Front.

For maximum straight line braking the rear is ineffective. It is only needed when braking in low grip conditions, while cornering, or during super long descents where heat balancing is needed.

I don't use my rear brake for most road riding. Mountain biking is different. Last week I was using front and back, while cornering on sand.

ItsDank wrote:Noted, I'll have a go at feathering the front and putting more load at the rear for most situations where I'm not going straight.

No need to feather. You should be able to brake soley using the front. Better yet practice pulling stoppies lifting your rear wheel to learn better brake control.

Lot of info from sheldon brown and jobs Brandt on this subject:;
http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yugyug wrote:Lot of info from sheldon brown and jobs Brandt on this subject:;
http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's a bit of a treasure trove.

Tl;Dr Use the front brakes.

This is pretty straight forward, if you're halfway co-ordinated, you can take serious handfuls of the front brake without flipping the bars. It requires using your body as a suspension arm rather than stiffening up.

Stiff body plus handful of front brake, and you'll go over the bars.

In a heavy braking situation I haven't lifted the rear wheel ever, not for lack of trying.

If you want to test cornering theory, I implore you to ride a MTB or CX bike and hit some loose dirt corners at a moderate speed. Touch the brake and it will be game over, the wheel you brake with will begin to wash out almost instantaneously. It's the best illustration of what happens when you ask a limited traction wheel to do some slowing.

After you've done that a few times it will make you reconsider touching your brakes mid corner. Because you might get away with feathering it 99 times, but that 100th time, where there's a bit of unseen oil on the road, seeya later buddy, game over.

bychosis wrote:

mick243 wrote: some were even deliberately started..

Mad skidz.

I love locking the rear and sliding to a stop with the back hanging out, my tyres don't love it and it's not efficient braking but I suspect it comes from my coaster braking days as a kid Normally I have some front braking to go along with the rear skid too on a bike with hand brakes.

Me too, I cant help it on gravel and my MTB. I lock up the rear on my roadie all the time under heavy braking, it just squirrels about but its easy to control (let off the rear and it stops) and it always makes me grin.