Converting 2015 Giant Talon 1 27.5

[Lachiepower0402]

So I am wanting to convert my bike to electric. I don't really have a budget, so at the moment, price doesn't matter. I was considering the Dillenger 250W 10Ah kit. Does anyone have any experience with this kit and disc brakes as I'm worried that my disc brakes at the front won't have enough clearance. Any other suggestions for kits?

Thank you in advance.

[jdh500]

I'm using the same kit since February 2015 on a Merida T5 flat bar bike, it has rim brakes rather than disc brakes, when I installed the front hub motor there was only about 2mm between the fork and disc adaptor on the hub, if a front suspension fork you should be ok, If the specs are not available I can do an approx. measurement if that helps.

I'm also in the process of upgrading to a Merida speeder 500 with nuvinci N360 and bfang mid drive setup.

JDH

[Lachiepower0402]

How do you find the kit? How long does it last? Can you go up hills with little peddle assist? My bike does have front suspension, so measurements from yours probably won't help, thanks anyway. I was also considering the bafang, but I was worried I would have to get rid of my 30 speed setup. Is this true, do I have to use their chain ring? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to make sure I know if it will suit me. The nuvinci looks awesome, haven't heard of that brand, is it like Shimano Di2. Also the Merida looks like a good bike.

If possible, can I get some photos of your T5?

[ironhanglider]

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, but I didn't see anything on the website that said you could fit a disc rotor to that hub.

Cheers,

Cameron

[Lachiepower0402]

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, but I didn't see anything on the website that said you could fit a disc rotor to that hub.

Cheers,

Cameron

I'm not 100% sure about fitting my disc brake, but I saw another forum post where someone had the same bike and motor. They said in their post that it definitely helps having disc brakes, whether that refers to the stock disc brakes, only rear disc or modified brakes, I don't know. But it sort of does look like you can mount a disc brake to the hub, but it's hard to tell because of the low res picture.

[ironhanglider]

I'd have thought that if it could take a rotor that they'd be advertising that as a feature.

Cheers,

Cameron

[Lachiepower0402]

I'd have thought that if it could take a rotor that they'd be advertising that as a feature.

Cheers,

Cameron

You'd think so. But I found a manual for installation of the kit which shows that a disc brake can be installed.

http://dillenger.com.au/wp-content/uplo ... Manual.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Answered my own question. LOL.

But now my question is how this motor performs as in how fast it can go, does it pull hard, what is it like up hills with and without throttle, etc.

[cj7hawk]

I'd have thought that if it could take a rotor that they'd be advertising that as a feature.

Cheers,

Cameron

You'd think so. But I found a manual for installation of the kit which shows that a disc brake can be installed.

http://dillenger.com.au/wp-content/uplo ... Manual.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Answered my own question. LOL.

But now my question is how this motor performs as in how fast it can go, does it pull hard, what is it like up hills with and without throttle, etc.

Not wanting to throw cold water on this project or anything, but from the link provided, that's not a street-legal kit in Australia.

Not that anyone probably cares about that - but if you're going to add a motor to your bike and you want torque, etc, why not just go for 1000W?

Kits like you linked to are only street legal under 200w maximum power across Australia. The 250w laws are basically just there to allow the import of complete assembled bikes - or the retrofit of factory kits to bicycles - not DIY conversions. It's not impossible to do a DIY compliant conversion, but it's not a simple matter either.

Regards
David.

[Lachiepower0402]

I'd have thought that if it could take a rotor that they'd be advertising that as a feature.

Cheers,

Cameron

You'd think so. But I found a manual for installation of the kit which shows that a disc brake can be installed.

http://dillenger.com.au/wp-content/uplo ... Manual.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Answered my own question. LOL.

But now my question is how this motor performs as in how fast it can go, does it pull hard, what is it like up hills with and without throttle, etc.

Not wanting to throw cold water on this project or anything, but from the link provided, that's not a street-legal kit in Australia.

Not that anyone probably cares about that - but if you're going to add a motor to your bike and you want torque, etc, why not just go for 1000W?

Kits like you linked to are only street legal under 200w maximum power across Australia. The 250w laws are basically just there to allow the import of complete assembled bikes - or the retrofit of factory kits to bicycles - not DIY conversions. It's not impossible to do a DIY compliant conversion, but it's not a simple matter either.

Regards
David.

No harm done, better someone tell me now than when I have installed the kit and get pulled over.

I would love to install a > 1000W motor but I might still want to use my bike on the road without getting pulled over. Unless I can quick swap the wheels in 5 minutes?

However, I can't find any other motors with more power than 250W in my tire size. If I wanted to go larger I would have to get someone to lace the wheel for me.

My other option is the mid drive motor, but I'm worried I will have to remove some of my gears.

I'm not going to go petrol as I've already got one of those.

[cj7hawk]

To be 250w technically it's supposed to be EN1514 compliant - But the lack of EPAC stickers is a bit of a giveaway that it's not. In all likelihood, if you were to meet most of the requirements ( eg, throttle doesn't work over 6kph, pedals cannot drive engine if backpedaled, 250W maximum, and provides no power over 25 kph, with a typical maximum powered speed of around 20-22 kph maximum ) then the police probably wouldn't bother you, even if they had a reason to. Most Pedelecs won't do better than 19 kph.

On the other hand, a 200w bike can do about 25 kph average speed without any pedaling, and faster if there's a tailwind. Using a 250W motor to start is fine too - You could also use a 1kW motor - As long as the circuitry is built such that it can't exceed 200W on the flat and level. It just means you have to play with voltages and drive currents.

I got an Ebay 500W motor (AT) 48v, and drive it at 24v which provides around 125w maximum, but I overdrive the circuit to push it up to 200W by means of current-limited boost circuit of 200w (AT) 36v. The end result is I think I have somewhere between 160w and 180w at the wheel, but it increases at higher speeds so it's pretty fast for a 200w limited bicycle. That works pretty well for me.

But 25 kph is the key - if your bike won't go over 25kph average in opposite directions on a flat piece of ground without wind, then you should be right - And if you can demonstrate that, and you affix a sticker claiming the same ( 200w tested (AT) 25 kph ) then generally you'd be in a good position if someone ever pulled you over. Also, covering any marking that may suggest other power levels would help too.

Regards
David

Oh yeah, going up hills, Well, I have a direct drive and it helps. I need to pedal though. Mid drive is far better for climbing, but for general use, the motor is great. I commute on it with a small petrol generator to keep things charged.

[Lachiepower0402]

To be 250w technically it's supposed to be EN1514 compliant - But the lack of EPAC stickers is a bit of a giveaway that it's not. In all likelihood, if you were to meet most of the requirements ( eg, throttle doesn't work over 6kph, pedals cannot drive engine if backpedaled, 250W maximum, and provides no power over 25 kph, with a typical maximum powered speed of around 20-22 kph maximum ) then the police probably wouldn't bother you, even if they had a reason to. Most Pedelecs won't do better than 19 kph.

On the other hand, a 200w bike can do about 25 kph average speed without any pedaling, and faster if there's a tailwind. Using a 250W motor to start is fine too - You could also use a 1kW motor - As long as the circuitry is built such that it can't exceed 200W on the flat and level. It just means you have to play with voltages and drive currents.

I got an Ebay 500W motor (AT) 48v, and drive it at 24v which provides around 125w maximum, but I overdrive the circuit to push it up to 200W by means of current-limited boost circuit of 200w (AT) 36v. The end result is I think I have somewhere between 160w and 180w at the wheel, but it increases at higher speeds so it's pretty fast for a 200w limited bicycle. That works pretty well for me.

But 25 kph is the key - if your bike won't go over 25kph average in opposite directions on a flat piece of ground without wind, then you should be right - And if you can demonstrate that, and you affix a sticker claiming the same ( 200w tested (AT) 25 kph ) then generally you'd be in a good position if someone ever pulled you over. Also, covering any marking that may suggest other power levels would help too.

Regards
David

Oh yeah, going up hills, Well, I have a direct drive and it helps. I need to pedal though. Mid drive is far better for climbing, but for general use, the motor is great. I commute on it with a small petrol generator to keep things charged.

Thanks for all that information, but I'm not really into making my own system, while I'm fully capabale of doing so, I would prefer not to. I saw this website which says it complies with the EN15194 european pedalac standard, is that the same as EN1514?

http://www.zbox.com.au/products.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm looking around at the moment for suitable kits which have adjustable power levels.

[jdh500]

I wasn't sure I could attach photos directly so here is a drop box link to the Merida T5 photos with and without kit installed. The Installation probably took a couple of hours in total and maybe another hour or so fine tuning it etc. The hub is a geared hub so does provide some torque, that being said most of my ride is along cycleways West Ryde to North Strathfield along Meadowbank/Homebush Bay along the foreshore so at most a small 5% grade mostly getting onto and off the railway bridge.

Using the throttle on the flat without peddling the bike will sit on 28 to 29km/h (overriding 25km/h limit through the display setup , with peddling maybe 30 to 32km/h, if I really peddle hard I do upto 40km/h on the flat for limited time (I weigh about 85kg). Basically prior to the conversion I was averaging about 25km/h over 9 to 10km commute and about 30km/h with the conversion. not a big difference but at least I arrive to work fresh and not needing a shower. Generally I don't bother using the throttle and use the highest peddle assist settings to drive the hub motor. I use the e-bike to get to work 3 days a week and use a normal flat bar road bike for an extended ride on the weekend.

I'm in the transition to the Bfang mid drive setup on a new Merida Speeder 500, this performs better than the 250W hub motor (especially on bigger hills) but you do pay a lot more for it, also I would not recommend a derailer with the Bfang mid drive and you really need to also factor in the cost of a Nuvinci N360 too for it to work trouble free.

Looking at probably selling the Merida T5 (purchased new in Late Feb 2015) with or without the E-hub kit installed, willing to be made an offer if interested in it either together as a system or separately. If interested i'm located at West Ryde.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/okahytqhv5i9 ... I45FEYShEa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JDH

How do you find the kit? How long does it last? Can you go up hills with little peddle assist? My bike does have front suspension, so measurements from yours probably won't help, thanks anyway. I was also considering the bafang, but I was worried I would have to get rid of my 30 speed setup. Is this true, do I have to use their chain ring? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to make sure I know if it will suit me. The nuvinci looks awesome, haven't heard of that brand, is it like Shimano Di2. Also the Merida looks like a good bike.

If possible, can I get some photos of your T5?

[jdh500]

With the Bfang mid drive you would loose your 3 ring and replace it with the one that comes with the Bfang, you can buy some other aftermarket rings that a lighter but you still only have the 1 ring upfront. That being said unless you have some very big hills you probably would not need it as the mid drive will more than compensate for the reduced gear range.

JDH

How do you find the kit? How long does it last? Can you go up hills with little peddle assist? My bike does have front suspension, so measurements from yours probably won't help, thanks anyway. I was also considering the bafang, but I was worried I would have to get rid of my 30 speed setup. Is this true, do I have to use their chain ring? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to make sure I know if it will suit me. The nuvinci looks awesome, haven't heard of that brand, is it like Shimano Di2. Also the Merida looks like a good bike.

If possible, can I get some photos of your T5?

[Lachiepower0402]

I wasn't sure I could attach photos directly so here is a drop box link to the Merida T5 photos with and without kit installed. The Installation probably took a couple of hours in total and maybe another hour or so fine tuning it etc. The hub is a geared hub so does provide some torque, that being said most of my ride is along cycleways West Ryde to North Strathfield along Meadowbank/Homebush Bay along the foreshore so at most a small 5% grade mostly getting onto and off the railway bridge.

Using the throttle on the flat without peddling the bike will sit on 28 to 29km/h (overriding 25km/h limit through the display setup , with peddling maybe 30 to 32km/h, if I really peddle hard I do upto 40km/h on the flat for limited time (I weigh about 85kg). Basically prior to the conversion I was averaging about 25km/h over 9 to 10km commute and about 30km/h with the conversion. not a big difference but at least I arrive to work fresh and not needing a shower. Generally I don't bother using the throttle and use the highest peddle assist settings to drive the hub motor. I use the e-bike to get to work 3 days a week and use a normal flat bar road bike for an extended ride on the weekend.

I'm in the transition to the Bfang mid drive setup on a new Merida Speeder 500, this performs better than the 250W hub motor (especially on bigger hills) but you do pay a lot more for it, also I would not recommend a derailer with the Bfang mid drive and you really need to also factor in the cost of a Nuvinci N360 too for it to work trouble free.

Looking at probably selling the Merida T5 (purchased new in Late Feb 2015) with or without the E-hub kit installed, willing to be made an offer if interested in it either together as a system or separately. If interested i'm located at West Ryde.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/okahytqhv5i9 ... I45FEYShEa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JDH

How do you find the kit? How long does it last? Can you go up hills with little peddle assist? My bike does have front suspension, so measurements from yours probably won't help, thanks anyway. I was also considering the bafang, but I was worried I would have to get rid of my 30 speed setup. Is this true, do I have to use their chain ring? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to make sure I know if it will suit me. The nuvinci looks awesome, haven't heard of that brand, is it like Shimano Di2. Also the Merida looks like a good bike.

If possible, can I get some photos of your T5?

The amount of power you get out of the motor is quite a lot for the price of the kit, I am more leaning towards this now. Regarding my last post about laws, I don't really think that will be a problem. As in Newcastle, their is a Electric Bike Hire shop and it has been running for about 5 years, they also use kits such as this, which would technically be illegal. However, the last time I rode one of their bikes which was last weekend, I passed three cops both pedaling and throttle only and they didn't care. So I think by your convincing details, that I will be getting this kit.

I would love to get a road bike like yours with a motor on it, but unless you want to sell it for around $3000 in about February, which is probably a bit low. I don't think I will be able to afford it.

If I do go for a kit, it would be a hard choice between the mid drive and front drive, I would probably use the mid drive without a derailleur which means when I run out of battery, which will definitely happen. I live in Eastwood and the hills to work are killers, I can hardly get up one of the hills in the lowest gear out of 30. I will have to push my bike, work bag and an extra 10kg of motor and battery up the giant ass hill. But the advantage of this is that if I do have battery life left, I can power up that hill using the mid drive which has more torque.

Also, thanks for the photos.

[jdh500]

I assume the hill you are referring to is Sharftsbury road or Darall Rd, luckerly I live at the bottom of the hill and commute away from it. To really tackle that hill with added baggage you would really need the bfang 48v 750w setup and go it illegal !!! The 250w front hub motor would still do this without an issue as long as you have atleast double front chain ring and prepared to go slower. Was thinking of selling the T5 with installed e-bike kit minus the add on lights rear bag for about $1000 give or take $100 depending on the interest.

JDH

[Lachiepower0402]

I assume the hill you are referring to is Sharftsbury road or Darall Rd, luckerly I live at the bottom of the hill and commute away from it. To really tackle that hill with added baggage you would really need the bfang 48v 750w setup and go it illegal !!! The 250w front hub motor would still do this without an issue as long as you have atleast double front chain ring and prepared to go slower. Was thinking of selling the T5 with installed e-bike kit minus the add on lights rear bag for about $1000 give or take $100 depending on the interest.

JDH

It's Shaftsbury road that I come up and down, its an absoulute b****. You're lucky you don't have to climb that monster, Have you ever tried Tarrants Ave, I have yet to climb that in one go. $1000, WOW. My current balance is $860, which I will have that money by next Wednesday, would you take it for $900 at this point in time, sorry to bargain, but you have a really nice bike.

[cj7hawk]

To be 250w technically it's supposed to be EN1514 compliant - But the lack of EPAC stickers is a bit of a giveaway that it's not. In all likelihood, if you were to meet most of the requirements ( eg, throttle doesn't work over 6kph, pedals cannot drive engine if backpedaled, 250W maximum, and provides no power over 25 kph, with a typical maximum powered speed of around 20-22 kph maximum ) then the police probably wouldn't bother you, even if they had a reason to. Most Pedelecs won't do better than 19 kph.

On the other hand, a 200w bike can do about 25 kph average speed without any pedaling, and faster if there's a tailwind. Using a 250W motor to start is fine too - You could also use a 1kW motor - As long as the circuitry is built such that it can't exceed 200W on the flat and level. It just means you have to play with voltages and drive currents.

I got an Ebay 500W motor (AT) 48v, and drive it at 24v which provides around 125w maximum, but I overdrive the circuit to push it up to 200W by means of current-limited boost circuit of 200w (AT) 36v. The end result is I think I have somewhere between 160w and 180w at the wheel, but it increases at higher speeds so it's pretty fast for a 200w limited bicycle. That works pretty well for me.

But 25 kph is the key - if your bike won't go over 25kph average in opposite directions on a flat piece of ground without wind, then you should be right - And if you can demonstrate that, and you affix a sticker claiming the same ( 200w tested (AT) 25 kph ) then generally you'd be in a good position if someone ever pulled you over. Also, covering any marking that may suggest other power levels would help too.

Regards
David

Oh yeah, going up hills, Well, I have a direct drive and it helps. I need to pedal though. Mid drive is far better for climbing, but for general use, the motor is great. I commute on it with a small petrol generator to keep things charged.

Thanks for all that information, but I'm not really into making my own system, while I'm fully capabale of doing so, I would prefer not to. I saw this website which says it complies with the EN15194 european pedalac standard, is that the same as EN1514?

http://www.zbox.com.au/products.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm looking around at the moment for suitable kits which have adjustable power levels.

ZBOX seem to be pretty serious about ensuring that their kits comply with the law, but I can't see what's on their label. Without knowing more, I'd probably give them the benefit of the doubt. I have spoken to them in the past about other matters and they do seem to understand what is necessary to comply with the law, so if they say it's compliant, and if it has a sticker, then it should reasonably be compliant.

Regards
David

[jdh500]

Best to PM me, I also purchased a second 36v charger to have at home and one at work, haven't needed to use it though. I also have the original wheel with new front matching tyre and original grips to include too. I'd throw that in as well for $975 or $900 if you don't need the original wheel and charger. What I would take off from what you see in the photo is the lights, topeak post rack and bag and stand and install original pedals. You could make an offer on those extras to if you want to include them but would prefer to keep them as I have a use for them and would only end up re buying them. Standard Components on the Merida speeder T5 are reasonably good, ie. Ultegra front/rear derailleur, FSA compact cranks, light alloy frame, Alex rims, Continental tyres, carbon seat post, stem etc.

Not desperate to sell (can wait a couple of months) however I'm running out of room with the new purchase and ready to move on!!! Happy for you to have a look at it to see what a flat bar road bike plus e-bike kits performs even if you don't purchase.

Either send me a PM or I can send you one with my details if interested.

JDH

I assume the hill you are referring to is Sharftsbury road or Darall Rd, luckerly I live at the bottom of the hill and commute away from it. To really tackle that hill with added baggage you would really need the bfang 48v 750w setup and go it illegal !!! The 250w front hub motor would still do this without an issue as long as you have atleast double front chain ring and prepared to go slower. Was thinking of selling the T5 with installed e-bike kit minus the add on lights rear bag for about $1000 give or take $100 depending on the interest.

JDH

It's Shaftsbury road that I come up and down, its an absoulute b****. You're lucky you don't have to climb that monster, Have you ever tried Tarrants Ave, I have yet to climb that in one go. $1000, WOW. My current balance is $860, which I will have that money by next Wednesday, would you take it for $900 at this point in time, sorry to bargain, but you have a really nice bike.

[Lachiepower0402]

To be 250w technically it's supposed to be EN1514 compliant - But the lack of EPAC stickers is a bit of a giveaway that it's not. In all likelihood, if you were to meet most of the requirements ( eg, throttle doesn't work over 6kph, pedals cannot drive engine if backpedaled, 250W maximum, and provides no power over 25 kph, with a typical maximum powered speed of around 20-22 kph maximum ) then the police probably wouldn't bother you, even if they had a reason to. Most Pedelecs won't do better than 19 kph.

On the other hand, a 200w bike can do about 25 kph average speed without any pedaling, and faster if there's a tailwind. Using a 250W motor to start is fine too - You could also use a 1kW motor - As long as the circuitry is built such that it can't exceed 200W on the flat and level. It just means you have to play with voltages and drive currents.

I got an Ebay 500W motor (AT) 48v, and drive it at 24v which provides around 125w maximum, but I overdrive the circuit to push it up to 200W by means of current-limited boost circuit of 200w (AT) 36v. The end result is I think I have somewhere between 160w and 180w at the wheel, but it increases at higher speeds so it's pretty fast for a 200w limited bicycle. That works pretty well for me.

But 25 kph is the key - if your bike won't go over 25kph average in opposite directions on a flat piece of ground without wind, then you should be right - And if you can demonstrate that, and you affix a sticker claiming the same ( 200w tested (AT) 25 kph ) then generally you'd be in a good position if someone ever pulled you over. Also, covering any marking that may suggest other power levels would help too.

Regards
David

Oh yeah, going up hills, Well, I have a direct drive and it helps. I need to pedal though. Mid drive is far better for climbing, but for general use, the motor is great. I commute on it with a small petrol generator to keep things charged.

Thanks for all that information, but I'm not really into making my own system, while I'm fully capabale of doing so, I would prefer not to. I saw this website which says it complies with the EN15194 european pedalac standard, is that the same as EN1514?

http://www.zbox.com.au/products.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm looking around at the moment for suitable kits which have adjustable power levels.

ZBOX seem to be pretty serious about ensuring that their kits comply with the law, but I can't see what's on their label. Without knowing more, I'd probably give them the benefit of the doubt. I have spoken to them in the past about other matters and they do seem to understand what is necessary to comply with the law, so if they say it's compliant, and if it has a sticker, then it should reasonably be compliant.

Regards
David

Thanks for that, I've always seen them as a trusted brand especially with theif petrol engines and your experience with them confirms that.

[jdh500]

PM sent.

JDH

I assume the hill you are referring to is Sharftsbury road or Darall Rd, luckerly I live at the bottom of the hill and commute away from it. To really tackle that hill with added baggage you would really need the bfang 48v 750w setup and go it illegal !!! The 250w front hub motor would still do this without an issue as long as you have atleast double front chain ring and prepared to go slower. Was thinking of selling the T5 with installed e-bike kit minus the add on lights rear bag for about $1000 give or take $100 depending on the interest.

JDH

It's Shaftsbury road that I come up and down, its an absoulute b****. You're lucky you don't have to climb that monster, Have you ever tried Tarrants Ave, I have yet to climb that in one go. $1000, WOW. My current balance is $860, which I will have that money by next Wednesday, would you take it for $900 at this point in time, sorry to bargain, but you have a really nice bike.