Taralla Creek to Lilydale link (Pipetrack/Freeway reserve) updates?

[antigee]

sometime back I saved a map from an article somewhere that was saying that approval and funding was happening for a link from the end of the Taralla Creel Trail in Croydon (I think apologies if mislabelled your suburb) using a waterpipe reserve and the unused Healesville Freeway reserve to get to Lilydale and in effect linking Carrum and Warburton via Eastlink trail/Dandenong Creek - any one know if open? my saved map has comment planned open mid 2016 - is it worth me going to look? - I've no enthusiasm for the like of Mount Dandenong or Dorset rd

[BJL]

I messaged Bicycle Network (Whatever they consider themselves these days), in December last year about this. Vicroads has installed and has operating pedestrian lights at Dorset Road, Mt Dandenong Rd and Cambridge Rd for some time now but nothing else appears to have been done. This path is not even going to be sealed. Packed gravel so how hard can it be? 'Supposed' to be finished a year ago but other than the pedestrian lights, NOTHING appears to have been done.

BN responded and said 'wait for an update on the tender process in Jan 2017'. I've given up. My guess is that one day a few years down the track (excuse the pun) someone from Vicroads will question why the pedestrian crossings are there and have them ripped up. It's a stupid route anyway. It should be run along the railway line and get the land reserved for it at the Lilydale end before the developers get hold of that land and fill it with dog boxes. But no, it'll be left until it is far too late and we'll be once more left with disjointed, unusable, substandard crap. As usual.

And for future reference, BN refer to it as the O'shannassy Pipe trail on the BN website if you want the non existent updates.

BN don't care about grassroots stuff anymore. I sent them a few photos of the recently reconstructed path from Heathmont to HE Parker reserve in Bayswater and they really couldn't care less. And the rail trail to Belgrave through Bayswater (which the aforementioned path is part of) has been completed for a couple of months now, not that they could notice or give a rats because the site hasn't been updated for a year now.

As soon as I find cheaper insurance, Bicycle Network will be gone from my life. They can get stuffed. I hope they read this.

[antigee]

Cheers BJL - yep I might be heading back to UK in a couple of years and was thinking I'll keep my BicycleVictoria membership as I expect they'll soon be busy organising one or two recreational rides there

didn't realise that section called O'shannassy as well as stuff up near Warburton - to confuse google tells me WhitehorseCyclists are keeping up to date on plans for the Healesville Freeway reserve - but on checking this is for a section south and west between Springvale and Boronia roads.....

meanwhile my lunchtime googlefoo yields a document to residents from Yarra Ranges councils about planned vegetation removal and pretty bluntly saying that all consultations have been completed - this doc is dated sept 2016
(warning this is a downloadable word doc - not a web link)

https://www.yarraranges.vic.gov.au/file ... _2017.docx

this doc links back to:

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/plannin ... ydale-link

with latest news being:
"Project update – August 2016
As part of the $7.4 million project funded by the Victorian Government, we're currently finalising the design of the Bayswater to Lilydale link. In preparation for the rail, pedestrian operated signals on Dorset Road and Mount Dandenong Road in Croydon have been installed.

Construction of the trail is targeted for completion in 2017."

"The next section to be completed runs from Oak Lane in Croydon South to Eastfield Road in Croydon."

so looks like reasonable possibility will happen but I won't be holding my breathe but crossing my fingers

[BJL]

Thanks for the links.

I was going by the info on the Bicycle Network site which simply says 'The trail is expected to be completed by the middle of next year.', in the most recent post dated April 2015. Also judging by the pedestrian lights which were installed in 2015, I would have thought that was reasonable target. The delay on what is a simple gravel path is really inexcusable.

And I agree that the name BN used is confusing. I wish they'd get their act together and be consistent with what everyone else is calling it.

[antigee]

well its "the middle of next year" and 2-3 months ago there was a good post on the (secret?) cyclingvictoria forum from someone saying had ridden albeit with much ongoing construction.....so to conclude first - its almost there and is very rideable - all major road crossings are good - weekend ride a couple of construction signs but no problems, last couple of km approaching Lilydale still to be widened but is OK (just)...one 50m section in Mooroolbark on quiet road, the rest on wide mixed gravel and concrete until arrive near Lilydale and its back to an old 1m path...no signposting of route (yet) ....rode up the Tarralla Creek trail from Dandenong Creek trail which has seen marginal improvements and cut off at the Croydon wetlands bridge to cross Norton Rd and find this:


excellent looking sealed path ...soon becomes gravel (not that I don't mind gravel but not everyone is happy):



then to revert to wide concrete just before Cambridge road and continuing as such (though hard to spot)




there is a very brief on road section before Taylor Lane, Mooroolbark



- a series of "Cyclist Dismount" signs on the prior section (heading to Lilydale) ( !!)




are sort of forgiven by a very well laid out series of graded curves on the hill after Taylor Lane:

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followed by pleasant riding thru to junction at Hull Rd / Carronvale Rd where it all stops:



but according to Vicroads https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/plannin ... ydale-link it is planned to upgrade this section from a narrow paved then gravel (shared? - not signed as such) path thru to Hull Wetlands and the unposted Olinda Creek trail to Lilydale Lake and Lilydale

edit forget to say it is pretty easy to follow on OSM

[Scintilla]

The trail to Lilydale from the Hull Road rail crossing...... should go along the rail line

How freakin' hard is it to work out, really?

[BJL]

The trail to Lilydale from the Hull Road rail crossing...... should go along the rail line

How freakin' hard is it to work out, really?

That's what I've always thought. At least map out the land required and reserve it before it all gets subdivided and built upon. They could have also avoided the steep hill at Cambridge Rd by routing the trail further along the pipeline to Pembroke Rd where it could have joined up with an existing shared path heading back to where it crosses Cardigan Rd.

In addition, I think they could have easily built a trail along the railway line all the way to Croydon and possibly Ringwood. Also in addition, they should be building a trail along the Healesville Freeway corridor between Kilsyth and Bayswater.

I guess I can still dream.

The funny thing about this trail is that if they ever do build the Healesville Freeway, it's largely going to be the sealed sections that will be ripped up to make way. Also got to laugh at the 'cyclists dismount' signs. If they used the same criterion everywhere for those signs, I'd have to walk my bike halfway across Melbourne every time I go for a ride.

Overall, it's not too bad but it's a let down after years of waiting. I'm disappointed they didn't asphalt the entire pipeline section like they did the first bit.

It's also bemusing at Cambridge Rd (north side) to see the 'Shared Path Ends' signs on the old shared trail along Cambridge Rd. Isn't this a shared path anymore? I walked my dog along there last week and there's still 'Shared Path' and 'Think Helmet' signs all along the section to Mooroolbark roundabout?

[rodneycc]

Great work. Awesome updates, Thanks Antigee/ BJL.

[Mike Ayling]

The trail to Lilydale from the Hull Road rail crossing...... should go along the rail line

How freakin' hard is it to work out, really?

The funny thing about this trail is that if they ever do build the Healesville Freeway,

This is not going to happen. VicRoads has given over the starting section from Springvale Road for development as public open space which may include a bike path at some stage.

Mike

[BJL]

The trail to Lilydale from the Hull Road rail crossing...... should go along the rail line

How freakin' hard is it to work out, really?

The funny thing about this trail is that if they ever do build the Healesville Freeway,

This is not going to happen. VicRoads has given over the starting section from Springvale Road for development as public open space which may include a bike path at some stage.

Mike

I was under the impression that VicRoads had abadoned the entire Healesville Freeway corridor, but a large chunk of it came up as option 'D' for the North East Link project. The section between Eastlink and Coldstream really does need to be built at some stage as it would go a long way to alleviating traffic congestion in Croydon, Mooroolbark, Lilydale, Montrose and everywhere in between. Traffic out here is only going to get a lot worse with every second house being ripped down and replaced with 3-4 town houses.

But I'll concede that it won't happen in my lifetime.

[cycles gitane]

The funny thing about this trail is that if they ever do build the Healesville Freeway,

This is not going to happen. VicRoads has given over the starting section from Springvale Road for development as public open space which may include a bike path at some stage.

Mike

I was under the impression that VicRoads had abadoned the entire Healesville Freeway corridor, but a large chunk of it came up as option 'D' for the North East Link project.

VicRoads has declared the Healesville Freeway reservation between Springvale rd and Boronia Rd as no longer required for a freeway.
The reservation East of Boronia rd is still on their books for future freeway use.

[Mike Ayling]

VicRoads has declared the Healesville Freeway reservation between Springvale rd and Boronia Rd as no longer required for a freeway.
The reservation East of Boronia rd is still on their books for future freeway use.

Oops, didn't know that.

Mike

[Scintilla]

The section between Eastlink and Coldstream really does need to be built at some stage as it would go a long way to alleviating traffic congestion in Croydon, Mooroolbark, Lilydale, Montrose and everywhere in between. Traffic out here is only going to get a lot worse with every second house being ripped down and replaced with 3-4 town houses.

Build. More. Roads.

Get. More. Traffic!

"Adding road lanes to solve congestion is like giving a man a bigger belt to cure obesity" - Lewis Mumford, 1955.

[BJL]

The section between Eastlink and Coldstream really does need to be built at some stage as it would go a long way to alleviating traffic congestion in Croydon, Mooroolbark, Lilydale, Montrose and everywhere in between. Traffic out here is only going to get a lot worse with every second house being ripped down and replaced with 3-4 town houses.

Build. More. Roads.

Get. More. Traffic!

"Adding road lanes to solve congestion is like giving a man a bigger belt to cure obesity" - Lewis Mumford, 1955.

A useful comment when it was written, 1955. By that reckoning, we should be performing 'lap band' surgery and reducing ALL roads to ONE lane for motor vehicles and the rest of the space for others. I'd be happy to trial that for a week. lol.

And what traffic are you talking about anyway?

It won't be freight. No one is going to send trucks through the Yarra Valley when they have the almost dead flat and straight Hume Fwy that already caters for the townships north of the ranges. So it'll be mainly for the increase in population which due to poor public transport options out here, have NO choice but to use a motor vehicle to get around.

Due to the 'green wedges' in place, an increase in population only possible due to every Tom, Dick and Harry either subdividing or demolishing houses to be replaced with 2-3 town houses. A problem fueled by unsustainable population growth in turn making house prices closer to the city unaffordable, forcing people to move further out. A problem also experienced by those in the South East (Monash carpark) and out west of Melbourne but at least they have freeways to clog up instead of local roads.

If you have any suggestions to fix these problems, then I'm all ears. In the meantime, one piece of overdue road infrastructure would be more than welcome, considering that the Yarra Valley has largely been ignored for the last 50 years.

[Scintilla]

A useful comment when it was written, 1955. By that reckoning, we should be performing 'lap band' surgery and reducing ALL roads to ONE lane for motor vehicles and the rest of the space for others. I'd be happy to trial that for a week. lol.

And what traffic are you talking about anyway?

Maybe just read a little..... about the Chonggyechon Expressway removal in Seoul. Or the Park Expressway closure in NYC. Or even just the tale of the reduction in driving lanes on Princes Bridge (Melbourne) to facilitate a bicycle lane.

Closing off road lanes to provide for PT or bicycle facilities routinely results in an increase in traffic capacity.

Cars are not called 'road-hogs' for nothing.

[BJL]

A useful comment when it was written, 1955. By that reckoning, we should be performing 'lap band' surgery and reducing ALL roads to ONE lane for motor vehicles and the rest of the space for others. I'd be happy to trial that for a week. lol.

And what traffic are you talking about anyway?

Maybe just read a little..... about the Chonggyechon Expressway removal in Seoul. Or the Park Expressway closure in NYC. Or even just the tale of the reduction in driving lanes on Princes Bridge (Melbourne) to facilitate a bicycle lane.

Closing off road lanes to provide for PT or bicycle facilities routinely results in an increase in traffic capacity.

Cars are not called 'road-hogs' for nothing.

Mate, I agree with you to a large extent. I've seen articles with pictures of 'before and after' shots of American cities of neighborhoods full of houses and then the after shot where a massive freeway has been built right through the middle.

However, at the end of the day, enough infrastructure has to be built for any given population and in this case, the land is reserved and overall would benefit the local community. The risk is that it might create pressure to remove the green wedges out here and we'll end up with street after street of identical looking houses all the way from Lilydale to Healesville, Yarra Glen, Warburton and everywhere in between.

And BTW, I'm very much against the 'big Australia' that pollies and the big end of the town want to satisfy their never ending, unsustainable greed. The obese man in the quote ultimately isn't just a metaphor for roads, it's a metaphor for human greed and the continued growth in human population it requires. There's the problem.

[Scintilla]

I shall say it one more time - build more roads; get more traffic.

Until we see the true foolhardiness of encouraging the urban-sprawl-inducing low-density suburban development, and take action to change this, we will be just encouraging it yet more.

https://grist.org/cities/when-adding-bi ... ic-delays/

[BJL]

I shall say it one more time - build more roads; get more traffic.

Until we see the true foolhardiness of encouraging the urban-sprawl-inducing low-density suburban development, and take action to change this, we will be just encouraging it yet more.

https://grist.org/cities/when-adding-bi ... ic-delays/

I've had a very bad week and to be honest, I no longer really GAF about life or whatever stupidity the human race gets up to because if I have NO intention of remaining around long enough to see the plan of the stupids come to its full fruition.

And we are now well off topic and we'll just have to agree to disagree because despite my often 'black and white' posts on here, there's actually very little black and white and the world is mostly grey. So blanket comments like yours are seriously misguided and in most arguments, it's about balance.

It's not building roads that encourages more motorized traffic. It's not even the low density urban sprawl that does it. And Australians like low density living as opposed to the crammed in like sardines overpopulated s#*t holes like many other countries around the world. And just to rub salt into the wound, the rich live in their sprawling mansions (low density mind you) whilst forcing the rest of us to pay through the nose to live in dog boxes.

If you want to get cars off the roads, then provide an alternative.

But let's just for a moment follow your logic through. I guess hospitals increase injuries and disease? Maybe we should stop building schools as that only encourages education. Maybe we should STOP building police stations as perhaps that encourages crime. What next will you suggest, fire stations encourage arsonists? Stupid arguments. God forbid anyone use public infrastructure.

Because you haven't read what I said, and that's that for any given population, you need a certain level of infrastructure built to cater for it. Simple as that. The whole problem with your 'build it and they will come' argument is that we haven't built it and they came anyway. And if you're going to take that line of approach, then they shouldn't be building any cycling infrastructure either as we're only going to use it clog it up.

The main issue here is the policies of Australian governments over the last 50 years or so to privatize everything. Roads are in fact the privatization of transport. So the government doesn't have to get off its lazy butt and provide trains or buses.

I no longer have any interest in discussing this. I'll read your reply but for now on, I'll stick to the thread topic.

And my next ride will be along the Mullum Mullum trail to see if the last section is open yet.

[cycles gitane]

And my next ride will be along the Mullum Mullum trail to see if the last section is open yet.

Sorry to disappoint you, I visited the Mullum Mullum trail from Westerfolds heading south last weekend (15/7/2018).
The section between Park rd and Heads rd is not open. Taken so long, whats going on???
Not even works for an entrance point to the new trail from Park rd.
Several months ago work was evident on the Head rd side.

Disappointed to the max

[antigee]

nearly went and had a look midweek but checked council website first - headline says Jul 2018 but if click link now says Aug 2018 ??? as ever all seems a bit slow - sewer works long gone

https://www.manningham.vic.gov.au/mullum-mullum-trail

meanwhile I am in awe of the speed of construction of the Chandler Highway bridge and can only hope that the cycling side of things has the same impetus

..and heres for BJL having a better week this week

[Scintilla]

if you're going to take that line of approach, then they shouldn't be building any cycling infrastructure either as we're only going to use it clog it up.

Simple answer to that 'problem'. In contrast with private single-occupant motor vehicle use, encouraging greater bicycle use (including multi-mode like bike-rail ) is the solution to congestion. We need to encourage it much more, and I fully agree that our governments have NOT done this, for well over 50 years now. We need the correct policy approaches. Building more freeways, especially radial freeways, is not part of this solution.

[BJL]

And my next ride will be along the Mullum Mullum trail to see if the last section is open yet.

Sorry to disappoint you, I visited the Mullum Mullum trail from Westerfolds heading south last weekend (15/7/2018).
The section between Park rd and Heads rd is not open. Taken so long, whats going on???
Not even works for an entrance point to the new trail from Park rd.
Several months ago work was evident on the Head rd side.

Disappointed to the max

I think the main hold up with this project is the sewerage project that's been going on in the area.

See this as well for updates:

https://www.yvw.com.au/faults-works/com ... ge-project

I was sort of hoping they'd meet their last target of July though. Another month or two won't matter.

Edit - Sorry Antigee, I didn't read your entire post properly. Sewer works done then. The YVW page indicates it's still in construction but I don't head out that way too often (riding up and down Park / Heads was fun the first time, now it's just annoying) so I'm just relying on the website.

[antigee]

might be a bit dated for the locals but for those that are looking for traffic free routes out of Melbourne an update and a question:

somewhere above and a year or so ago I reported that the trail more or less ended at Hull Rd... just reporting that a wide shared use path now exists on the south side of Hull rd coming from Mooroolbark this ends after crossing Hull rd at Lakeview Drive which can be followed to Lilydale lake and on to Warburton Trail.. appreciate from comments above that some would prefer a direct railside route to Lilydale and that makes sense but the route being created does work for access to/from Evelyn area from Melbourne - actually need both routes and possibly the wrong route got priority as easier to do (edit opinion I'm just a user)

some pics and a question ...now the BoxHill/Ringwood trail extends to Ringwood any good quiet road/shared path routes from end of that trail to pick up the Carrum/Warburton / Belgrave/Lilydale (#sametrail2namesnormal) shared trail at Croydon avoiding loop south to Dandenong Creek trail/Tarralla creek trail?

looking west back down Hull road towards Mooroolbark:



looking east towards Swansea rd after shared trail crosses Hull rd (no signals but has a centre refuge and placed for good visibility)


looks like the lawyers need some new crayons and to have the packaging they retained shoved up them ... any way the suggested route is ok with good sharrows on roundabouts - not that family friendly with parked cars and 50km/hr limit



meanwhile I'd encourage updates on trail/road/junction crossing improvements from what I see BN (BV whatever) now only cover in a limited way

[cycles gitane]

Thanks for the updates.
I will have to ride the path (from Wantirna).